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7th Ed. A Lizardmen army without a Stegadon?

L
Skink

Lord Ryba Oujak

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Does anyone not run a Stegadon in their list? I'm torn as to include a Stegadon in my lists. The games i've proxied in one they just don't seem to provide much for the points. Now one game it drew all enemy fire so as to have my blocks reach combat unscathed, which is good for that. Just a dead Stegadon. :beaver: Overall it seems to be underutlization of points. The EotG is also a TON of points for what it does.

Your thoughts on this would be helpful.
 
They do a good job of drawing fire it seems. What army do you most face? If you're facing lots of fear/terror causers to begin with a terror causing monster isn't going to do much good as far as the psychological factor. Low leadership armies will at least give you the opportunity to come up the flank with one for sometimes devastating results.

It seems like a general rule of thumb, that the more powerful a character/monster is the more points it costs at an exponential level. This means you're paying more for power. I'd say it is not the end of the world if you don't bring one, but an effectively utilized one will reap you good benefits.
 
Offering a Stegadon to get my whole army 'safe' into combat? I'd do that.. Sadly i play alot against Dwarfs so i don't even think about getting it near sight of his war machines with those Engineers with D6 hits instead of D3. It provides a 5+ Save which is also very good against a shooting list.

Unless your opponent underestimates a Stegadon you will most likely not get your points back from it if you will look at it combat wise. I didn't bring one a few battles (So my opponents would shut it about only being able to win with an Engine) and it went pretty well.. I took some Kroxigors and an extra Scar vet instead to compensate the power. You don't have to take one with you.. it all depends on your list/style/opponent.
 
I'm definitely starting to think that a character on a steg is extremely vulnerable, the priest is too easy to kill and loses a LOT of the effectiveness of the engine. They are definitely very powerful if they get close though, try to keep them a bit covered, which is touch with such a large target. Terradons to get rid of warmachines early.
 
I dont use stegeddons generally... EoG is very easy target for all kind of Warmachines and Skink priest on EoG can be hunted by any mage hunters...I prefere solid combat units 2x15 Saurus (Saurus Hero in each one), 16 Temple guard with slann, 3x10 Skink skirmish, 2x3kroxigor for flank holding, and 4xTerradon... in 2000Pst games it works... In my club I have 2 Empire and 2 dwarf player... so at least one of the carnasour or stegadons generally dies in 1 or 2nd shooting phase... If use more than 1 Stegadon there is a little points left for main battle line... And I like the battle lines... IMHO Warhammer a kind of battle simulation game... not a Monster rampage game... :D I like playing with Infantery and cavalry game more than playing 4-5 model Monster games... IMO 4-5 Monster Lists are not a ARMY... they can win battles... but they are not Armies...
 
Thanks for the great replies! Well my most common opponent at the moment is Skaven/High Elfves and Dark Elves.
there is a little points left for main battle line
Click to expand...
I definatly agree with this as it seems with Lizrdmen that they use all parts of the list to win, hence the issue of finding avaliable points for a Stegadon. Terror has its uses, just not so much against LD 8-9 elves and LD 8-10 Skaven (as my friend is using a Warlord list for an upcoming tournament in August, so we're practicing for that). I totally agree with Strewart about the fragility of the skink on the engine, or even a chieftan, as if the opponent gets some good randomization on his shooting hits then it likely could be bye bye skink. Then if shooting doesn't kill the priest, then close combat probably will as (correct me if i'm wrong) the opponent can just attack the skink direct (with possibly higher strength hits). I'm thinking that maybe just a regular Steg to stay pace with my battle line and back just an inch or to would be good for dual charges or counter charging. That might help out more with my feeling about underutilization of points. Then i'll have enough points to stick the Sun Standard of Chotec on my Slann! (lol, making the general/bsb + temple guard unit o doom worth probably about 3/8 my force).
 
I think I'd prefer to bring a stegadon to the battle, in certain lists, just not with a character riding. With all those eggs riding in a bullet magnet 'basket' it just doesn't seem like it will win it's points back, with a given few exceptions.
 
Yeah, a temple guard unit with Slann is a bullet magnet. I'm starting to think that maybe a regular Steg might be a good idea (lke I mentoned before) for its role as a big monster to menace the opponent. Also to provide a bigger target than Slann+Temple Guard. I guess the Steg is more worth its points if its able to directly contribute to the battles my Saurus are fighting (as of late they seem to strugle due to my disgustng rolling).
 
Aside from rolls, it also seems as though a Stegadon needs to be positioned correctly in order to be effective in combat. Of course, there isn't anything that you can do about positioning if its killed from shooting/magic early. At that point, you just have to consider that you spent those points protecting your other troops from bullets.
 
Didn't Hannibal once field an army of damn near entirely elephants? It was the symbol on his coins according to wikipedia, so he clearly prided himself on elephant power even if it wasn't the exclusion of his forces.

Honestly, the stegadon is a totally brilliant and unique unit for lizardmen, and is really equivalent to an elephant in all regards. Many armies have some form of chariot or heavy shock weapon that adds to combat rez, ours just happens to be kinda slow, and also a monster. I find that most times a stegadon to the face is not enough to break a ranked unit, so you really have to be more conservative with them, possibly even hiding them behind forests (which lizardmen should darn near always place on every board, that and water).
 
Getting back on topic, if you choose not to use a Steg in your army (which can be common for small games), you have to find ways to take another unit that can hit hard similar to a steg.

My first guesses on a replaement unit would be Kroxigors or perhaps Cold One Cavalry. I'll leave the other options open for others to mention as I am slightly pressed for time.
 
Hard hitters ey? well krox and steg + cold ones almost sums it up.

Cold ones are better then krox as they are faster and more attacks for around the same price, plus a better save.
 
I don't like Cold Ones anymore.. Each single charge i do against some Core Choice ends up me killing nothing and my Cold Ones running with an laughing mob trampling my unit. Kroxigors run in.. smash.. and move to the other unit. My new current mojo doesn't allow Cold Ones i think.. Offering Chaos Dwarfs ain't healthy i tell you that.

But for some they work. I tend to say that you could bring some more Skirmishers.. They killed the most models.. beside my Solo Scar Vet whom is famous for eating Core units.. Kung-fu Skirmishers are teh winz.
 
Are you kidding? Cold ones FTW- just plop a scar-vet in the unit and theyll crush anything! (my last got shot to death all game, and still came out not dead, holding 2 banners, and having the unwounded scar-vet slay an enemy general :D
 
I have taken a Scar vet on Cold One once.. Dwarfs ran over him the turn he charged.. The whole unit didn't kill a thing. My solo Scar Vet took the same unit out on his own.

I do like Cold Ones.. but they failed me too many times. I will use them when i am gonna test my Carnosaur though..Just because i lack points to get 2250 with a Carnosaur instead of Slann.
IMHO Scar Vets should not be used to be a huge upgrade to a unit.
 
First off, as regards steggies, I tend to field an engine in every game I play and it has always been beneficial. Burning alignment in particular has saved my backside in games against WoC where in a single turn I managed to blast 2 units of knights back to their chaos deities!

Apart from that, it is great at toughness 6 since most missile weapons barely scratch it. Only things to really fear are warmachines and nasty mage hunters. However, with careful play you can easily take these out with terradons or perhaps salamanders. Also, plan carefully before charging with the engine. It is great for support and to take down small units (e.g. 3 ogres) but a fully ranked up unit is a tough nut to crack (especially dwarfs). Also, beware great weapons.

As regards the Cold Ones, I find that they are a great shock troop. Not good enough to take out a unit of the stronger types of troops, but as a supporting unit or a flank protector they are great! I am currently fielding a unit of 5 together with a scarvet equiped with the scimitar of the sun resplendent. On the turn I charge I get 18 str 5 attacks and 6 str 4 attacks. Impressive against low toughnessand low save opponents, but against better armoured ones the result is usually not so great.
 
i was just thinking that a unit of CoR with a scar-vet costs about as much as EotG and i would say that they usually get more kills off than a EotG for me but they don't give the protection that an EotG does so if you like to kill more than you like to protect then go that way if you play a little defensive get the engine
 
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