8th Ed. 3k vs. WoC. No artillery. Combat heavy help needed

[Mikasaz]

My friend and I have been playing against some pretty cheesy army lists ( dwarven hoarding scouting parties or straight up artillery lines) for months now and we got tired of it and agreed to do a 1 on 1 match, lizards vs WoC. No artillery so it'll be an absolute blood bath in combat. I'm relatively sure he's gonna run probably a horde of chaos warriors, a demon prince a slaughterbrute, 6 dragon ogres 6 blood crushers some forsaken and some sort of nurgle spell caster. This is what I'm bringing

Slann
Focus of Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Bsb

Old blood
Carnosaur Pendant
Aura of quetzl
Venom of Firefly Frog
Carnosaur

ScarVeteran
Glyph Necklace
Additional weapon

Skink Priest
Level 2
Engine of the gods
Itxi Grubs

Saurus x 20
Full command

Saurus x 20
Full command

Skinks x 30
Kroxigor x 3
Full command

Skinks x 10
Brave

Skinks x 10
Brave

Temple Guard x 10
Full command
Sun standard of Chotec

Cold Ones x 8
Full command

It needs some tinkering here and there

Keep in mind we agreed on no artillery minimum shooting. Oh and before I get attacked for smaller units everyone I've been playing with has been adopting hoard formation and I'm actively boycotting it by proving smaller units with mobility is better. I go for flanks and usually get them.

Anyways any help would be lovely. Thanks!

 

[newscales]

I'd combine the saurus into 1 big unit that has some staying power. WoC will tear through a rank and you will be reduced in attacks back. They will strike first remember. the TG are really too small to be effective unless you are just looking for the look out sir. If that is the case, just get a crap cheap skink cohort unit and park him there.

cold ones are really over priced for what they bring. another skox unit may be better, or taking their points for two large saurus forces. or some terradons perhaps - drop rocks will wound and they are decent flank charge with the +1 strength for the charge on their spear and the stops at the end.

i see no salamanders, which really would be the MVPs of your list. that and a Metal lore slann probably. get some in if you can. trade the skink shooting for them any day of the week.

 

[Mikasaz]

I'm workin on temple guard I only have ten with more on its way. And as for my Saurus I did think they were a bit small. I wanted to do at least twenty five but went with the block of TG instead. I have to do some math but ill see what I come up with. And about the salamanders. Trust me I never leave home without em but the rule was no artillery so I decided against. I've used them many times with great success. It's a shame to leave them at home.

But I was hoping to keep cold ones for a flank charge with my Carnosaur someplace. Either his horde which I'm hopin my TG or Saurus will hold in place. Or the slaughterbrute my skrox will most likely run into. The cold ones and Carnosaur combo without fear of shooting or artillery makes me feel like I could actually get my points worth out of them

 

[skillfull_dan]

First off, list looks like fun.

Couple things you should be aware of though. The Carnosaur is a lot of fun, but easy to kill. Because it is monstrous, he will not get a LOS roll at all even if he is with the cold ones. That may not be a problem for you though since there is no artillery, this might actually be a perfect case to use him.

Also, you old blood build seems a little unfocused. If you want to use the aura of quetzl, thats good, just pair make sure to use either the glittering scales or fencers blades with it to enhance the effect. Otherwise I would just give him armor of destiny or talisman of preservation to make him more survivable. If you are going to keep that build though, at least give him a halberd or GW.

I also agree that turning the saurus into one killer block of 40 is a good idea, you need to horde up to have enough models to make an effective counter attack.

Also, what lore were you going to take?

 

[newscales]

i don't consider the sally an artillery unit. I would reserve that for Stegs, but the sallies and razors actually use those dices and stegs dont, which is kinda crazy.

 

[Mikasaz]

Like I said we have an extremely small player base to work with and the newest who tailors lists to piss people off and has even resorted to cheating at times has started this horde craze so I'm dead set against it. A horde of chaos warriors won't stand up to a unit of Saurus dead on. Another on its flank and a unit of cold ones or the Carnosaur on another. They won't have a shot in hell and I usually get my positioning better so tactically I'd rather have mobility rather than massive units unless someone can convince me otherwise.

As for my old blood I know I left him kinda blank. I was gonna tweak him some more but I love tons of attacks with poison the rest is a cakewalk. I would prefer glittering scales but can't go too much as him and the slann are already 700 ish.

And lore wise. I've played life more times than I can count. Heavens was always good ( they have nightmares about comets). And I out of honor for the so many Saurus that have fallen use pit of shades or xerxes. I really want to change up pace maybe fire or beast. Something that isn't normally done but will still be useful. Perhaps light even. I know metal would be a great choice but this game kinda decides if my friend will continue playing (it's been that bad) so I'd like not to specifically tailor my army to crush his. More of a generic ass kicking army.

And I have to leave Sally at home. When we set the rule no artillery he was specifically referring to them. He's faced them many times before and massacred him. The next was a steg with giant bow. He didn't ban it but didn't like it. He's basically walking in with literally no shooting or artillery. It's been quite odd not having to design a list without fear of cannons.....

 

[newscales]

our strength is not in our hand to hand combat. magic and shooting is our game, and he wants to take half of it away. WoC have some really nasty spells and their infantry will mop ours. forsaken, chosen....if he wants to stack it in his favor, I'd say take a lore that will make him think twice and that is metal. he's bound to have lots of ward saves, so make the other trickster's would be a good buy. i dunno. not the kind of list I'm comfortable with.

krox horde with light buffs?

 

[Mikasaz]

Well I was feeling somewhat confident and now you've officially rattled that. I figured with enough light buffs I could hold my own. Plus it'd do some damage to his demonic units like demon prince and slaughterbrute. I'm not all too familiar with it but I thought it was a good bet.

And trust me. This isn't my favorite list either. I'd love several Sally's peppering his horde down to nothing and running through his ranks. One thing that does really concern me is he really decks out his daemon prince. It really concerns me

 

[Kharn The Betrayer]

The easiest way to deal with WoC Is to harass their big scary horde (they'll probably have only one as they are expensive af) marchblock to try and isolate a unit and multicharge it into the dust. Also, a steg in the flank or cold one cowboy goes a long way towards ruining his day. Also, at 3k definately run those 2x20 Saurus as one block as 20 Saurus can't do much alone at 3k.

 

[Stonecutter]

Just one quick observation regarding the carnie lord build - it currently has two enchanted items (pendant & VoFFF) so one will have to go. I think the biggest problem in the WoC list will be all the stomping and thunderstomping (dragon ogres, DP, slaughterbrute & blood crushers - not to mention the potential for chimera). The current list is highly vulnerable to this and the DP has no counter at all. If even two of the monsters hit the saurus or TG, they will wipe the floor with them inside of a couple turns. The DP is likely to be the biggest pain and I believe requires something (or someone) to tie him up. Best bet would be a re-tooled OB on a cold one vice carnie with armour of destiny, dawnstone, GW & either VoFF or other tricksters shard.

If you have the models available, a skrox heavy list (or even a 2nd skrox block) would also be very useful since they are fast, hit hard (albeit not often due to low WS) and cannot be stomped. The points could come from the carnie savings & by dropping the scar vet since even the rank & file warriors are nearly his equal and the SV won't survive one round in contact with any of the big nasties in the WoC list.

Looking at lores, light will definitely work well and is a fairly friendly lore since it doesn't have any killer spells. It also has low casting values even for the area of effect buffs and can help offset the major weaknesses of lizzie troops in terms of WS and I. Shadow might be fun to try as well since it has a good mix of hexes and mindrazor is a major threat. For the TG, the banner makes little sense since the warriors are not bringing shooting and even if they did, it would not be affected by it. You might even consider dropping the TG entirely and simply give the slaan the crown of command and park him in a unit or on his own.