8th Ed. 3k tournament list, c+c

[Coatl]

ok, new tournament (league-style) is about to start in a week for two and I've been tinkering with the way id like to run my lizzies. i've got plenty of options but here is the list im leaning towards for the opening rounds:

Lords
Slann* (Light) Loremaster, Rumination, Cognition, BSB, Cupped, Flaming Banner 455
Slann (Death) Loremaster, Power Stone 295

Heroes
Skink Priest Lvl 1, Dispel, Blood Statue 115

Core
20 Saurus Command 250
24 Skinks 3 x Kroxigors, Musician 291
24 Skinks 3 x Kroxigors, Musician 291

Special
46 Temple Guard Command, Razor Standard, Ironcurse 821
5 Chameleons 60
5 Chameleons 60
5 Chameleons 60

Rare
2 Salamanders 150
2 Salamanders 150

Total Points: 2998

the horde of temple guard is my bastion, my rock, my anvil to anchor my lines. it holds a static res of 5, which is nice, deals out 37 S5 attacks base with a -3 modifier, has flaming and has my light slann to make them silly quick. the 20 saurus unit can be used to hold a flank, counter charge into whatever the temple guard are holding up or hold the watchtower should that come up. 2 skrox units for taking down any big nasties. 2 sallie units thin down the masses and chameleons go give out some warmachine lovin. the death slann will be used solely for character hunting. he will either be hiding in the 20 group of saurus or behind the temple guard, dealing death from a relatively safe spot. the -1 s and -1 t will also come in handy for the blood statue, hopefully taking out a weak wizard or bsb early on in the game. with the rumination and power stone, i should be able to draw out enough dice to get it off without being contested. thoughts?

 

[vocor]

That is one huge block of temple guard...

I really like it, youve covered most weakenesses your army could encounter. the only problem is losing your main block of temple guards (more than one miscast, firts turn warmachine shots, etc.)

The psychological factor of fighting that many TG will also be very usefull!

 

[Dunya]

Might work, you could run into trouble against lots of redirection or roadblocks.

I would never take a flaming Banner on a unit that large when generic items like the Dragonbane Gem or the Dragonhelm are commonplace. Would rather try to squeeze in a Scar-Vet with the Burning Blade and a
Potion of Strength

 

[Coatl]

it is very much a point denial strategy, so if i happen to get unlucky with too many warmachine hits or too many miscasts, thems the breaks . id agree about the dragonbane gem and dragon helm being issues, but i think those limited cases vs the amount of units that have regen aren't enough to dissuade me. i think my other units can handle those few exceptions if it comes to that

 

[Taipan]

Slann* (Light) Loremaster, Rumination, Cognition, BSB, Cupped, Flaming Banner 455
Slann (Death) Loremaster, Power Stone 295

Don't need Loremaster for Light, Plaque of Tepok is fine. Also, its spells are pretty easy and the ultimate is rarely needed, so 'Cupped Hands' should go on the other caster.

I can see what you're doing with the Death Slann. I'm not a fan of Death personally, but if 'Purple Sun' works out for you, go for it. I prefer Shadow, as all its spells are useful and it has some fantastic hexes and buffs to hand out. Plus its nuke can't backfire as badly as 'Sun' can.

If you don't want 'Rumination' on both, take it on one and put 'Cogitation' on the other. I feel you're making the BSB too important with everything on him. I generally keep the BSB cheap and hang back, and make the Shadow Slann my offensive caster. Thus, putting 'Cogitation' on your Death Slann is probably better, as he has to get close to use his sniper spells and will thus be in range to make 'Cogitation' work.

Heroes
Skink Priest Lvl 1, Dispel, Blood Statue 115

Standard stuff. Why no EOTG or Scar-Vets?

20 Saurus Command 250
24 Skinks 3 x Kroxigors, Musician 291
24 Skinks 3 x Kroxigors, Musician 291

I'd drop the Champ out of the Saurus, he's just added cost.
Not a fan of Skrox, I guess with Light buffs they stop being worthless and carve through chaff decently.

46 Temple Guard Command, Razor Standard, Ironcurse 821

Sweet god no. I'd cut them into two blocks of 20 each. Don't need Razor Standard, it's a very expensive upgrade. Shadow can 'Mindrazor' if you get charged by something that well armoured. Ironcurse is pretty pathetic, I'd take EOTG over it if you want warmachine protection.
Drop out the Revered Guardian, he's overpriced trash. A Scar-Vet with magic gear would be much more useful as a bodyguard for taking challenges.
You can drop the Standard Bearer out of the unit the Slann joins, as his BSB already gives you the same benefits.

5 Chameleons 60
5 Chameleons 60
5 Chameleons 60

Eh. Most gunlines are screening nowadays to prevent such units from getting close enough to do their thing. Regular blowpipes do the same thing but fulfill Core and are cheaper. I wouldn't invest this much, 1-2 is enough.

2 Salamanders 150
2 Salamanders 150

You can have 3 Rares, so I'd break them down to 2+1+1. You can split fire easier that way, which may be needed against MSU armies. Also means your opponent has to waste seperate cannonballs/skirmishers/cavalry etc hunting them down.

the death slann will be used solely for character hunting. he will either be hiding in the 20 group of saurus or behind the temple guard, dealing death from a relatively safe spot.

Extremely vulnerable to assassination in either scenario. In the Saurus block, he'll be in the front row, getting hacked to death. Solo, he's at risk of cannonball snipe and again getting assassinated by flying characters/units. He also can't use 'Purple Sun' if he's hiding behind the TG mega-Deathstar (as it has to roll over them first), which sorta defeats the purpose of power scrolling.

the -1 s and -1 t will also come in handy for the blood statue, hopefully taking out a weak wizard or bsb early on in the game

'Withering' from the Shadow Lore does the same thing, but D3 is the modifier, so it makes 'Blood Stauette' extremely reliable. You do have to cast 'Enfeeble' as well to get both modifiers, and it only affects a single unit each time, but at D3. Saurus and Salamanders won't have trouble killing chaff, it's the single Deathstars or flankers that can be problematic.

with the rumination and power stone, i should be able to draw out enough dice to get it off without being contested. thoughts?

Nah, Soulblight is still worth burning a scroll or dispel dice for most armies. Especially with Salamanders in the field.

 

[Coatl]

just played a warm up game against new vamp counts. won on top of 4, blood and glory. he was running cc orientated with 3 50 blocks of skellies, 60 block of zombies, 9 vargheist and attached lord, 50 block of graveguard with vlad isabella and wight king bsb. i set up with the 20 block of saurus centered, horde of temple guard right side of them with the death slann behind and to the right, hid the priest behind a building and everything else went far left. was able to shut down his magic by moving the horde forward to be in range of vlad (his highest caster) and had 2 solid magic phases before charging in on my 3rd turn (tried to keep the grave guard out of combat so i could wittle them down a little first. killed the wight king 1st turn and bagged a couple gg with some banishment lovin'). mini purple sun before combat and some light buffs meant no gg left to attack back. WS 10, I 10, +1A and ASF is just the tits.

general strategy i outlined earlier worked quite well. the 2 krox units and 2 sallie units (btw you can have 4 rares at 3k, not 3 ) held the flank till the bottom of 3. magic phase was above average, but taking that into account i still think the amount of spells a light slann with rumination can put out is great for wearing down those dispel dice. most of the spells only require 1 pd (plus the extra) to cast on an above average consistency.


@taipan: not sure why your not a fan of the horde of TG, besides the points tied up in it. i play a very points denial style of warhammer, so having a unit that is tough to take down in CC with minimal magic buffing seems like a great way to keep a large chunk of points safe. even in games ive lost, my hordes of saurus/tg rarely get broken. TG horde is 3-0, saurus horde is probably 15-3 for survivabiltiy. if its because you think they are overcosted compared to saurus, here are why i think they are better:

for 4 more points per model (i run spears on saurus): unit champ can take some magic gear, unit can have a magic banner, +1 WS, +1S in cc, +1 AS against shooting, +1 I (huge boost for us imo), stubborn and I2P, slann in 2nd rank always (no need for scar vet to accept challenges when your slann doesn't ever have to)

 

[Taipan]

he was running cc orientated with 3 50 blocks of skellies, 60 block of zombies, 9 vargheist and attached lord, 50 block of graveguard with vlad isabella and wight king bsb

Is that even legal? Vlad is like 300+, Vamp Lord is 200+...is Isabella Hero or Lord choice? If hero then it's fine.
Can he attach a Lord to a Vargheist block? I thought them being Monstrous Infantry disallowed the attachment of characters.
Rest of it sounds pretty standard.

@taipan: not sure why your not a fan of the horde of TG, besides the points tied up in it. i play a very points denial style of warhammer, so having a unit that is tough to take down in CC with minimal magic buffing seems like a great way to keep a large chunk of points safe. even in games ive lost, my hordes of saurus/tg rarely get broken. TG horde is 3-0, saurus horde is probably 15-3 for survivabiltiy. if its because you think they are overcosted compared to saurus, here are why i think they are better:

for 4 more points per model (i run spears on saurus): unit champ can take some magic gear, unit can have a magic banner, +1 WS, +1S in cc, +1 AS against shooting, +1 I (huge boost for us imo), stubborn and I2P, slann in 2nd rank always (no need for scar vet to accept challenges when your slann doesn't ever have to)

I'm not a believer of giant Deathstars, magic and multi-charges tend to punish them hard. 'Dwellers', 'Pit' and 'Purple Sun' make a mockery of such things. There are army-specific spells that can do even worse (13th, Infernal Gateway etc). Not to mention, if they assasinate the Slann or you miscast, thats a lot of dead TG suddenly.
If you have two Slann, each in a seperate TG bunker, your opponent can't nuke both at the same time. It also dilutes enemy shooting and charging.

YMMV. I just don't feel comfortably risking so much with one unit. I don't deny, it's not something other armies want to tangle with, and if they haven't brought the right tools (magic, warmachines, miscast causing items, Slann assassination options), you will steamroller them. Same logic that makes Chosen so powerful.

 

[Ejpok]

Hello,
I don't like the Option with a flaming Banner on a Slann that is Whitin a Huge block of TG
A Stubborn Guy with a 1+ sv and 2+ ward vs Flaming can Hold This whole Block(in theory ofc

 

[Coatl]

isabella is a hero i believe. either that or it was a regualr vamp in the unit. if i recall correctly, characters cant join to monsters, swarms and war beasts(?) but they can join MI just fine.

i will agree, take out the slann and thats the game pretty much. im not so worried about magic with this setup because if i play agressive enough, i can nullify any IF a level 4 can through out, thus giving me at least a chance to dispel the nasty dweller/pit/sun coming my way. also why i have cupped hands on the light slann instead of the death, gotta keep that miscast bomb away. to each his own though . i've run it both ways

 

[Taipan]

Hello,
I don't like the Option with a flaming Banner on a Slann that is Whitin a Huge block of TG
A Stubborn Guy with a 1+ sv and 2+ ward vs Flaming can Hold This whole Block(in theory ofc

So? Kill him with 'Burning Alignment' or magic. Against everything else in Warhammer though, Flaming attacks is huge. Units with Regen can't engage, neither can cavalry or warbeasts, nor Flammable. That covers a lot of armies and units in Warhammer.

isabella is a hero i believe. either that or it was a regualr vamp in the unit. if i recall correctly, characters cant join to monsters, swarms and war beasts(?) but they can join MI just fine.

Oh you are correct. Just checked then, MI is fine to join. Hmmm...Skink Chief with magic weapon in a unit of Kroxigor could be amusing.
Isabella is a Hero, checked that too. She's a bit pricy though, I'd run a Vamp with a rulebook lore (Shadow, Metal, Light even) over her.

i will agree, take out the slann and thats the game pretty much. im not so worried about magic with this setup because if i play agressive enough, i can nullify any IF a level 4 can through out, thus giving me at least a chance to dispel the nasty dweller/pit/sun coming my way. also why i have cupped hands on the light slann instead of the death, gotta keep that miscast bomb away. to each his own though . i've run it both ways

Well, the thing is though, power scroll makes forcing through without IF easier (halving casting value on nukes is massive), and there is always power stone as well (poor mans 'Rumination' for one casting). Removing 6's is good, but I don't know if its worth the asking price. Especially when you biggest concern isn't nukes, it's multi-casts of 'Nehek' just outgrinding you in combat. Leads to the annoying choice of 'do I let him burn through all my dispel dice with Nehek denies, or do I let the rez through in favour of stopping the 1-2 nukes he'll throw down'.
I understand the logic, but Light isn't likely to miscast very often (low casting costs, and with 'Rumination' its easy to avoid rolling more than say 3 dice on most spells). So, if you do split up your TG for two bunkers, Cupped Hands on the Death/Shadow Slann would be more ideal.

 

[Coatl]

forgot about power scroll . and i agree, if i split into 2 TG units, the death/shadow slann def gets the cupped hands. it would probably be shadow at that point, purple sun would be useless to me. and even with low casting spells, its still hard to cast when you start taking away 6's . now he has to worry about throwing enough PD at those multiple castings to make up for the fact he might lose a dice or 2. and if he happens to squeak one by while losing a 6, that just means its 6 less i need to dispel, essentially saving me a dispel dice.