8th Ed. 3000 Points v High Elves

[sly]

Hi all,

My friend asked me to get a 3000 point list together to play off against his HE. I don't know for sure what he'll take, but if I had to guess I think he'll include Teclis and some kind of dragon rider, as well as Dragon Princes and a big unit of probably swordsmen with the World Dragon banner. Not sure what else...

My current wip list is as follows:

Slann Mage Priest (what Lore? I'm thinking probably Light, maybe Metal?)
Becalming
Harmonic
BSB - Discipline banner
Obisdian Trinket
Channeling Staff

Oldblood Cowboy
CO
Talisman of Pres.
Stegadon Helm
ToTS
GW

Chief
Teradon
Spear
Shield
Gambler's Armour
Egg

Level 1 Beasts Priest
Scroll

Level 2 Heavens Priest
Cloak of Feathers

Gor-Rok

30 Saurus
FC
HW+S

38 Skinks
Poison
3 Krox
Muso + Banner

20 TG
FC
Lichebone Pennant
Sword of Battle (Revered Guardian)

8 Coldone Cavalry
Spears
FC

Ancient Steg
EotG
Unstoppable Stampede

The plan here being, Saurus and TG on either side of the Ancient Steg in the center of the board and move towards the enemy. Cowboy and Chief on either side of the combat blocks to get a flank charge once combat starts. Skrox and Coldones out further on the wings to make use of their speed, and benefit from the Cowboy/Chiefs proximity.
Please let me know what you think. I've never played at this high of a points level before so I'm open to comments and suggestions.

 

[Scalenex]

Looks balanced on the whole. I would go with the Lore of Light or take Lore Mastery High Magic and swap into Light at every opportunity.. Light is good for Saurus heavy armies and it neutralizing a lot of Elve's advantages over us. A few minor things though:

I don't know why you bothered to give your Cohort Skinks poisoned attacks. You are fighting T3 Elves. The extra poison won't matter much unless your Cohort is going to take on Dragons or Phoenixes and the Kroxigors are going to be doing the heavy lifting anyway. If you bought the poison upgrade to up your Core points to the required percentage I would recommend using the points you save to buy a small pack of skirmishers. The Skirmishers can serve as an anti-eagle unit and they can help give a Skink Priest a reasonably safe mobile platform to serve as an Arcane vassal, speaking of which.

A Skink Priest with the Cloak of Feathers is great for serving as an arcane vassal, but is very vulnerable to shooting. I would probably drop him completely. If you do decide to keep with a Flying Skink of Doom, at least make him level one so he's not a points sink.

The Sword of Battle does not seem like a valid use of points to me. I normally don't bother giving my Revered Guardians the Warrior Bane if I bother to give them a magic weapon at all since it's cheap and permanently dock attacks from Dragons or Phoenixes if you get an unsaved wound.. Given the possibility of the Banner of the World Dragon, you are probably better off with fewer magical attacks.

You've invested 30 points in MR bestowing items for the Temple Guard, you need, it seems extravagent to only give it 20 TG. In my opinion 20 Temple Guard is slightly too small for a 2500 point game. At 3000 points with a defensive lore like the Lore of Light, I'd aim for 26, give or take depending how many points you are willing to scrape by trimming the other units on your list.

 

[sly]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Looks balanced on the whole. I would go with the Lore of Light or take Lore Mastery High Magic and swap into Light at every opportunity.. Light is good for Saurus heavy armies and it neutralizing a lot of Elve's advantages over us. A few minor things though:

I think you're probably right, Light covers the chinks in Lizards armor (...scales) quite nicely.

I don't know why you bothered to give your Cohort Skinks poisoned attacks. You are fighting T3 Elves. The extra poison won't matter much unless your Cohort is going to take on Dragons or Phoenixes and the Kroxigors are going to be doing the heavy lifting anyway..

Another good point, I'll drop the poison and use the points to take a unit of skirmishers to babysit the Heavens priest (whom I will also drop the cloak from, maybe give him a power stone to push a comet or chain lightning through).

The Sword of Battle does not seem like a valid use of points to me. I normally don't bother giving my Revered Guardians the Warrior Bane if I bother to give them a magic weapon at all since it's cheap and permanently dock attacks from Dragons or Phoenixes if you get an unsaved wound.. Given the possibility of the Banner of the World Dragon, you are probably better off with fewer magical attacks.

Ah yes, this dilemma. Originally I had the Slann taking the Skavenpelt Banner, so the thought process here was: 3 base attacks + 1 frenzy + 1 from sword for 5 PF attacks, and the ability to use a shield for that 3+ save (no parry but still). Pretty nasty, however since I dropped the SPB 4 isn't so impressive (particularly if he just gets dropped in a challenge before he can swing anyway... which is kinda likely). I'll keep the sword on unless I need to grab points from somewhere, in which case I'll switch out for Warrior Bane.

You've invested 30 points in MR bestowing items for the Temple Guard, you need, it seems extravagent to only give it 20 TG. In my opinion 20 Temple Guard is slightly too small for a 2500 point game. At 3000 points with a defensive lore like the Lore of Light, I'd aim for 26, give or take depending how many points you are willing to scrape by trimming the other units on your list.

The Slann's trinket only affects him unless I'm mistaken, but the unit's banner will affect Slann and TG, giving the toad a 2++ versus magic and the TG a 6++. Not great, but hopefully fewer exploding guardians when I'm 5 or 6 dicing something. As far as 20 TG being too few, I'm afraid that's all the models I have! That said though, I have some spear wielding saurus I'm sure my buddy won't mind me proxying, especially if it's only 5 or 6 guys. If I can, I will scrounge the points for 5 more TG from somewhere. Maybe between a Slann, 2 priests and an EotG I can drop a priest.... we'll see.

Thanks again for the feedback! I'll amend the list and see where it leaves me

 

[Scalenex]

You've invested 30 points in MR bestowing items for the Temple Guard, you need, it seems extravagent to only give it 20 TG. In my opinion 20 Temple Guard is slightly too small for a 2500 point game. At 3000 points with a defensive lore like the Lore of Light, I'd aim for 26, give or take depending how many points you are willing to scrape by trimming the other units on your list.

The Slann's trinket only affects him unless I'm mistaken, but the unit's banner will affect Slann and TG, giving the toad a 2++ versus magic and the TG a 6++. Not great, but hopefully fewer exploding guardians when I'm 5 or 6 dicing something. As far as 20 TG being too few, I'm afraid that's all the models I have! That said though, I have some spear wielding saurus I'm sure my buddy won't mind me proxying, especially if it's only 5 or 6 guys. If I can, I will scrounge the points for 5 more TG from somewhere. Maybe between a Slann, 2 priests and an EotG I can drop a priest.... we'll see.

Thanks again for the feedback! I'll amend the list and see where it leaves me

I was inspired to the read up on Magic Resistance (page 72 BRB). Sadly it explicitly states that MR does not stack BUT MR does extend to the whole unit, so the Obsidian Trinket alone will give MR (1) to the TG but sadly the Lichbone Pennant AND Trinket are redundant. You should drop one and use the points to buy another TG or you should drop both and give your Slann the Obsidian Amulet to get MR (2)

EDIT: Oh and while I don't think the rules say anywhere that MR does not apply to miscasts damage, I do not believe there is any text that says it does. That's going to be a hard sell to most opponents.

 

[sly]

sly wrote:

Scalenex wrote:
You've invested 30 points in MR bestowing items for the Temple Guard, you need, it seems extravagent to only give it 20 TG. In my opinion 20 Temple Guard is slightly too small for a 2500 point game. At 3000 points with a defensive lore like the Lore of Light, I'd aim for 26, give or take depending how many points you are willing to scrape by trimming the other units on your list.


The Slann's trinket only affects him unless I'm mistaken, but the unit's banner will affect Slann and TG, giving the toad a 2++ versus magic and the TG a 6++. Not great, but hopefully fewer exploding guardians when I'm 5 or 6 dicing something. As far as 20 TG being too few, I'm afraid that's all the models I have! That said though, I have some spear wielding saurus I'm sure my buddy won't mind me proxying, especially if it's only 5 or 6 guys. If I can, I will scrounge the points for 5 more TG from somewhere. Maybe between a Slann, 2 priests and an EotG I can drop a priest.... we'll see.

Thanks again for the feedback! I'll amend the list and see where it leaves me


I was inspired to the read up on Magic Resistance (page 72 BRB). Sadly it explicitly states that MR does not stack BUT MR does extend to the whole unit, so the Obsidian Trinket alone will give MR (1) to the TG but sadly the Lichbone Pennant AND Trinket are redundant. You should drop one and use the points to buy another TG or you should drop both and give your Slann the Obsidian Amulet to get MR (2)

Well ain't that something. Thanks for pointing that out! I think I'll probably drop the trinket and buy another TG. I'll scour the list for the points for 4 - 5 more too.

EDIT: oh really? Hmm, we've always played that any explosions etc. from miscasts are magical damage, and therefore unless it says 'no saves of any kind' an armor and/or ward save are permitted. I guess we just assumed that the miscast explosions are magical...