Jungle Swarm
Bloated Toad
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whats the best way to use a second gen lone slann. are there any supporting units that u should take or just hide him somewhere?
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7th Ed. 2nd gen lone slann
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Saurus
Axolotl
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That depends on who your enemy is.
If your opponent has lots of flyers or fast units, i would advise you not to take a lone slann at all. but if you do, try to put him in a forest for cover. Other than that fast units are best to guard your slann. the steg is great for it, as it benefits greatly from the slanns ld, can still do damage at range and has a 12 " charge.
Kroxis and SCOR work good too. The tactic is to let your skinks go forward and lure the enemy into a charge. then flee and have the opponent in charge range of the unit near the slann hopefully. if it is against infantry you'll have a higher charge range anyway. Terradons are also great to keep around the slann if anything should come near him from a direction you did not expect.
but especially if its a second gen slann i would not take the risk to field him lonely, too man points at a too high risk. If for example a pegasus paladin with the virtue of heroism comes around he could kill your toad with a single blow.
i can understand to not put the slann in a temple guard unit, but he will also be fine in a bunch of saurus with mark of quetzel or tzlacotl if its against a fear army. give him the warbanner and the unit is rock solid (unless it gets charged by multiple units at once, then you have a problem...., but to prevent this you keep the "guard units" around ^^)
If your opponent has lots of flyers or fast units, i would advise you not to take a lone slann at all. but if you do, try to put him in a forest for cover. Other than that fast units are best to guard your slann. the steg is great for it, as it benefits greatly from the slanns ld, can still do damage at range and has a 12 " charge.
Kroxis and SCOR work good too. The tactic is to let your skinks go forward and lure the enemy into a charge. then flee and have the opponent in charge range of the unit near the slann hopefully. if it is against infantry you'll have a higher charge range anyway. Terradons are also great to keep around the slann if anything should come near him from a direction you did not expect.
but especially if its a second gen slann i would not take the risk to field him lonely, too man points at a too high risk. If for example a pegasus paladin with the virtue of heroism comes around he could kill your toad with a single blow.
i can understand to not put the slann in a temple guard unit, but he will also be fine in a bunch of saurus with mark of quetzel or tzlacotl if its against a fear army. give him the warbanner and the unit is rock solid (unless it gets charged by multiple units at once, then you have a problem...., but to prevent this you keep the "guard units" around ^^)
Kroxigor
SohCahToa
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Although Axolotl's suggestions on how to defend a lone slann is great, I would strongly disagree with his advice not to field a lone slann.
In my opinion, the more generations you add to a slann the more important it is to have him fielded as a lone slann. I would suggest this quite simply because it is my opinion that a slann is by no means safer in a saurus/temple guard unit then he is alone. Yes, you can create a 'rock solid' unit if you invest in various banners and upgrades, but at that point you are investing points on the assumption that your opponent will take the initiative in the battle. Ideally, your slann would never be in combat, but then you are wasting all those points. If you put those points to work, you are endangering the slann. No matter how great you make the unit, there are still the Chosen Knights and Blood Keep Knights out there, and the size and movement restrictions of the Saurus guard just decreases the chance that you can redirect the charge or manuver out of the charge arc. Being in the open also shows your slann to an enemies entire firing base. With only T5 he isnt going to last long unless you invest in a plaque of protection, which were points that could have been invested to make his magic phase more overwhelming (PoDom, Diadem, etc.).
If one places him out of LOS in a forest or other terrain, he can use the skink priests to get the LOS he needs for his targets. Theoretically, and generally speaking I have found to be the case, by placing him deep enough in the woods (2"), no opponent can charge him until they are within the terrain feature itself. This gives you one turn to deal with all the nastiness about, using the aforementioned tactics. If there is not a suitable piece of terrain around to camp inside of (or you are playing a WE player, etc.), keep in mind that the Slann is still quite manuverable, being able to move 8" after turning up to 360 degrees. Much like the king in chess, it is sometimes beneficial to move him around with a rolling screen if things get dicey. Keep in mind also, that with the 2nd generation slann, when an enemy unit gets into a charge arc, a focused turn of spell-casting should be enough to wipe out the unit.
In my opinion, the more generations you add to a slann the more important it is to have him fielded as a lone slann. I would suggest this quite simply because it is my opinion that a slann is by no means safer in a saurus/temple guard unit then he is alone. Yes, you can create a 'rock solid' unit if you invest in various banners and upgrades, but at that point you are investing points on the assumption that your opponent will take the initiative in the battle. Ideally, your slann would never be in combat, but then you are wasting all those points. If you put those points to work, you are endangering the slann. No matter how great you make the unit, there are still the Chosen Knights and Blood Keep Knights out there, and the size and movement restrictions of the Saurus guard just decreases the chance that you can redirect the charge or manuver out of the charge arc. Being in the open also shows your slann to an enemies entire firing base. With only T5 he isnt going to last long unless you invest in a plaque of protection, which were points that could have been invested to make his magic phase more overwhelming (PoDom, Diadem, etc.).
If one places him out of LOS in a forest or other terrain, he can use the skink priests to get the LOS he needs for his targets. Theoretically, and generally speaking I have found to be the case, by placing him deep enough in the woods (2"), no opponent can charge him until they are within the terrain feature itself. This gives you one turn to deal with all the nastiness about, using the aforementioned tactics. If there is not a suitable piece of terrain around to camp inside of (or you are playing a WE player, etc.), keep in mind that the Slann is still quite manuverable, being able to move 8" after turning up to 360 degrees. Much like the king in chess, it is sometimes beneficial to move him around with a rolling screen if things get dicey. Keep in mind also, that with the 2nd generation slann, when an enemy unit gets into a charge arc, a focused turn of spell-casting should be enough to wipe out the unit.
Jungle Swarm
Bloated Toad
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OK, thanks for the help.
So a unit of 16(or 20?) saurus with either tlazcotl or quetzl and give the slann the war banner if he's in a unit.
So if he's lone should i keep a unit back(even just skinks) or should he be fine on his own(if there isn't any woods). Also would it be worth it to make my skink priest fly? It would be fun haha but will it give advantages for keeping him alive as well as line of sight? I'm only taking one priest along with a jsod.
So a unit of 16(or 20?) saurus with either tlazcotl or quetzl and give the slann the war banner if he's in a unit.
So if he's lone should i keep a unit back(even just skinks) or should he be fine on his own(if there isn't any woods). Also would it be worth it to make my skink priest fly? It would be fun haha but will it give advantages for keeping him alive as well as line of sight? I'm only taking one priest along with a jsod.
Kroxigor
SohCahToa
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Yes, giving the priest a cloak will do wonders in keeping him alive and giving the slann the exact LOS that he needs in any given turn.
You should not really leave your slann 'alone.' A lone jungle swarm or a 10 strong unit of skinks held around the slann to redirect charges and generally act as a speedhump is always a good thing, but in general you have to think of your list as a cohesive whole. With all the damage thrown out by the slann, you are going to have the opponent coming towards you (unless it is a gunline, in which case you dont have to worry too much about your slann getting charged). While you dont need 2 units of krox parked right next to your slann, your entire list should be built around funneling the enemy into ambushes if they move their way towards the slann.
And for those who have not been around for my previous rants, here are some fun links about a lone slann!!!
http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53&sid=b2798c17774d27d0aca302dd0cd91e4c
http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=220&sid=b9c5d1cede22a67f53332a308940ceb4
You should not really leave your slann 'alone.' A lone jungle swarm or a 10 strong unit of skinks held around the slann to redirect charges and generally act as a speedhump is always a good thing, but in general you have to think of your list as a cohesive whole. With all the damage thrown out by the slann, you are going to have the opponent coming towards you (unless it is a gunline, in which case you dont have to worry too much about your slann getting charged). While you dont need 2 units of krox parked right next to your slann, your entire list should be built around funneling the enemy into ambushes if they move their way towards the slann.
And for those who have not been around for my previous rants, here are some fun links about a lone slann!!!
http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53&sid=b2798c17774d27d0aca302dd0cd91e4c
http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=220&sid=b9c5d1cede22a67f53332a308940ceb4
Saurus
Axolotl
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SohCahToas has some good thoughts about this.
He is totally right that it is a waste of points to invest in a guard unit if it never sees combat.
But you can use it effectively for combat if you chose your fights carefully. If my "counter attack units" that i ve been keeping next to the slann atack anything you can manage to get a flank charge with the slanns unit if you position your units right. imagine this setup:
\ _ /
The left slash is the front of one unit (kroxis for example) the middle line is the front of the slanns unit and the right slash is another counter unit, stegadon or SCOR. I know hte arcs are not quite right but i hope you get the idea.
if the enemy charges one of the flank units you can have your slanns guard attack the enemy unit in the flank while the other flank unit protects the slanns unit back and side. If he charges the slanns unit he risks a countercharge from both flanks by the two flank units.
this setup has worked out quite good for me, as long as you keep the flanks of your counter units protected.
I suggest you try out both variants, in the end it all depends on your playing style and what you like more. I don't really think a lone slann is a bad option. I sometimes field one myself when i feel like it. so just try out what suits you better.
As for the flying skink:
The cloak of feathers can indeed be valuable. But be aware of the dangers it brings. a lone skink flying around might quickly be brought to the ground by shooting if you don't position him carefully. and the points that the cloak costs you might be better spend on dispel scrolls. But if your opponent has less magic and not much shooting anyway go ahead. but usually your slanns line of sight weill also work fine because he can see over the most stuff. and a skink priest on foot can also give him a really good view usually. again i have to say try it out and see if it fits your style to let him fly =)
He is totally right that it is a waste of points to invest in a guard unit if it never sees combat.
But you can use it effectively for combat if you chose your fights carefully. If my "counter attack units" that i ve been keeping next to the slann atack anything you can manage to get a flank charge with the slanns unit if you position your units right. imagine this setup:
\ _ /
The left slash is the front of one unit (kroxis for example) the middle line is the front of the slanns unit and the right slash is another counter unit, stegadon or SCOR. I know hte arcs are not quite right but i hope you get the idea.
if the enemy charges one of the flank units you can have your slanns guard attack the enemy unit in the flank while the other flank unit protects the slanns unit back and side. If he charges the slanns unit he risks a countercharge from both flanks by the two flank units.
this setup has worked out quite good for me, as long as you keep the flanks of your counter units protected.
I suggest you try out both variants, in the end it all depends on your playing style and what you like more. I don't really think a lone slann is a bad option. I sometimes field one myself when i feel like it. so just try out what suits you better.
As for the flying skink:
The cloak of feathers can indeed be valuable. But be aware of the dangers it brings. a lone skink flying around might quickly be brought to the ground by shooting if you don't position him carefully. and the points that the cloak costs you might be better spend on dispel scrolls. But if your opponent has less magic and not much shooting anyway go ahead. but usually your slanns line of sight weill also work fine because he can see over the most stuff. and a skink priest on foot can also give him a really good view usually. again i have to say try it out and see if it fits your style to let him fly =)
Jungle Swarm
Bloated Toad
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Thanks for all of the help guys. I will try both. I'm not really near any 2k games yet. I am at 1k and still have to buy krox, sallies and of course the slann but in a month or two it will be 2k games at my local GW(in ottawa, canada if anyone from this site is there!). This is really helpful as to how i will build up my army and what units to buy.
Thanks!
Chris
Thanks!
Chris
I don't always use a Slann, but when I do he gets a full retinue of 20 temple guard, full command, and a pair of magic standards. (cause fear, +1 combat resolution). The slann rolls with the two protective plaques, giving him the 2+ ward save and his guards 5+.
This makes a wonderfully capable close combat unit that is relatively good at repulsing ranged fire, and has the benefit of acting like a huge hate magnet. Properly supported its a fine position to be in. I hope my opponent will throw the best he has into this meatgrinder, and they typically oblige.
You just have to be painfully careful while appearing cavalier using this setup, as there are a few things that will just ruin your day. Flanking terror causers come to mind.
This makes a wonderfully capable close combat unit that is relatively good at repulsing ranged fire, and has the benefit of acting like a huge hate magnet. Properly supported its a fine position to be in. I hope my opponent will throw the best he has into this meatgrinder, and they typically oblige.
You just have to be painfully careful while appearing cavalier using this setup, as there are a few things that will just ruin your day. Flanking terror causers come to mind.
Ripperdactyl
kroxigor01
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Slann's are not 'models on foot' and only 'models on foot' can have the charm.
2nd gen Slann has one big cheesy rule. Always get one free dice to every spell. With 4 spells to choose, you can try to roll for good spells or/and choose many magic missiles. Fireball, etc, which are spell number 12 in the magic list.
About the lone Slann thing, I wouldn't keep him alone. If something does go wrong and enemy charges him, it's free points for enemy Temple Guards are very good (just love Stubborn), but they are just so costy. Sure they are good, but without Fear Standard (which cost a lot), they are not immune to fear.
So, I say that if you want them not-so-costy bodyguards, take Saurus block with Blessed Spawning of Tlazcotl. Becoming Immune to Psychology AND still not too costy AND good fighters. Add to this Slanns magic item which gives them Ward Save. I think it's cool.
Oh, and of course take 2+ Ward to Slann.
About the lone Slann thing, I wouldn't keep him alone. If something does go wrong and enemy charges him, it's free points for enemy Temple Guards are very good (just love Stubborn), but they are just so costy. Sure they are good, but without Fear Standard (which cost a lot), they are not immune to fear.
So, I say that if you want them not-so-costy bodyguards, take Saurus block with Blessed Spawning of Tlazcotl. Becoming Immune to Psychology AND still not too costy AND good fighters. Add to this Slanns magic item which gives them Ward Save. I think it's cool.
Oh, and of course take 2+ Ward to Slann.