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TOW 2k Magic Shut Down- Post FAQ/MPG

Gothmog Lord of Balrogs
Temple Guard

Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

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Concept is Magic Denial. Magic is harder now, let's make it impossible while taking advantage of the Saurus and TG glow up.

This is not using the Renegade rules because
1- SB is going to update them
2- there will still be instances where those arent in use, and being ready to play with all the limitations that come with being a legacy faction is something I need to be ready for

===
Lizardmen 2k- Grand Army w/ FAQ & MPG [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen, Combined Arms
===

++ Characters [970 pts] ++

Slann Mage-Priest [385 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Lore Familiar
- Obsidian Lodestone
- Becalming Cogitation
- High Magic

Saurus Oldblood [414 pts]
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Venom of the Firefly Frog
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Glyph Necklace

Saurus Scar-Veteran [171 pts]
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- On foot
- Paymaster's Coin

++ Core Units [854 pts] ++

21 Saurus Warriors [356 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion) [Obsidian Lodestone]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

17 Temple Guard [368 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Revered Guardian (champion) [Spelleater Axe]
- Standard bearer [Razor Standard]
- Musician

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

12 Skink Skirmishers [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Vanguard

++ Special Units [175 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Slann Lore Familiar would almost always be (with chance of rolling casting value)
-Drain Magic (58% chance)
-Walk Between Worlds (42% chance)
-Fury of Khaine (58% chance)
-Shield of Saphery (72% chance)

Other than the Bastiladon, everything has Magic Resistance -1 or -2.

I really think you'll still see some impactfull Magic use coming out of armies like High Elves, Cathay, Mortuary Cults, Beastmen Primal Hordes, and even Chaos with MoT, with their bonuses to cast. Also bound spells will pop up in a lot of places.

And in general I think it will still be something people are trying to use. More likely to encounter a level 1 or 2 wizard trying to rely on a signature spell some place or some critical hex or enchantment, burning a power scroll to do it.

So having MR and a Becalming Slann w/ drain will let me control Magic more.

Otherwise the Army is about taking a charge and just brick housing it now. Especially the TG

Biggest immediate concern is other ethereal. VC can be a real problem, and then I'm using a Slann to go hunt 90 point tomb banshees which is a bad value proposition
 
"So having MR and a Becalming Slann w/ drain will let me control Magic more."
This is really good and I think to play something similar.

My concern is however that you have really few units, let for flanking, no scouts or flyings. No bonus to cast. A BSB saurus with an armour save of 5+ that would be an easy prey....Give him at least a talisman of protection. And an halbeard, so you fight before great weapons ;)
 
Kalisto said:
"So having MR and a Becalming Slann w/ drain will let me control Magic more."
This is really good and I think to play something similar.

My concern is however that you have really few units, let for flanking, no scouts or flyings. No bonus to cast. A BSB saurus with an armour save of 5+ that would be an easy prey....Give him at least a talisman of protection. And an halbeard, so you fight before great weapons ;)
Click to expand...

The bonus to cast is tough to get, see the other list I post. 2 EotG is just expensive. Yes I could do powerscrolls or grubs, but just not convinced they are truly needed yet. Main thing I am doing is denying the enemies use to use Magic, not try and enhance mine.

I was considering ToP on the BSB, but in the TG he doesn't really need it because of their Guardian Rule. BSB should never get caught in a challenge, I should always have a TG to take it. I probably will switch to the ToP still, as the PMC was on him from when I was playing around with PMC + Venom on a Great Weapon. But the Halberd probably is the better choice too if he won't be in challenges. Though having the GW is still good for monstrous infantry.

I probably could afford scouts, but in general I always avoid it. One, it increases my chances of losing the dice roll to go first. Two, I'm bad at using it. Simple as. I find myself misplacing them more often than getting a win with them. Vanguard is just more useful to how I play, and has a near similar threat range.

I do have a flanker. A real big one. Swiftstride Carno. Gone are the days where these guys deploy and head up the center. Everything that nerfed dragons, nerfed our boy, but we still don't have fly either. The key is going to be getting him into flanks of units, or using him to hit cav trying to get around my side. The monster killer in the army is now a high combat res TG block with a Razorstandard.

I don't rate our fliers currently. For Rippers, we are hurt more than most by the impetuous change. LD 5 base is rough, as thats only a 28% chance to pass, or is LD 6 because a chief is with them then thats 42%, but both are short of 50% we had before, and if the slann is staying near the TG, we can easily get out of range of him and be in these scenarios, particularly as units going up a flank

Terradons are just low output now too. The changes to poison really hurt their javelins, which were low volume to begin with. Now 3 javelins means nothing. And bolas are still pathetic. Maybe drop rocks has a few more uses now as people take more level 1 or 2 wizards. I just don't know if thats worth 96 points
 
"For Rippers, we are hurt more than most by the impetuous change. LD 5 base is rough, as thats only a 28% chance to pass, or is LD 6 because a chief is with them then thats 42%",

This reason 90% of lizardmen player plays renegade now, or don't play lizardmen at all. Without renegade I would have left oldhammer too (since I refuse to buy just a new army because GW tell me to do that, prefer to change game then)

About Terradons, I still think they have a roll against light cavalry and war machines, nothing more. And faster than skinks that lost a lot due poison nerf.
I played 2 units ripper and they arent' bad at all to chase enemy casters, however if they got a chance to survive before against infantries this is now just zero due the double fightning rank. So i don't know either what I am going to play. Maybe 4 terradons....or maybe will use those points for a salamander since a lot of infantries will be played.
 
One other thing I've picked up is Saurus will often have 1-4 more attacks than you expect. Because when they die (and we're always striking last) you remove models from the end of the fighting ranks. You're not obligated to go B2B. So if (assume all B2B) you are a 5x5 block we have 15 attacks not 10. If 5 die we would have had zero attacks back. You might assume we get 5 back but actually no - 4 come off the ends of the fighting rank. The 5th is our choice so we won't pick one in b2b. So we actually have 8 attacks back!
 
Why can't pull in this order
1, 7, 2, 8, 9, 12, 3, 6

I'm always pulling from the end of the fighting rank in that order to comply with the rule.

Nothing says I have to pull evenly.
 
Gothmog Lord of Balrogs said:
Why can't pull in this order
1, 7, 2, 8, 9, 12, 3, 6

I'm always pulling from the end of the fighting rank in that order to comply with the rule.

Nothing says I have to pull evenly.
Click to expand...

I had this debate and I think you're wrong, but in any event someone's has pointed out the italicised text under it makes the whole video redundant so I removed it.


This says it far better than I can but basically - we are now has a massive advantage for our Saurus!
 
25 saurus with lance Made 11 attacks on first rank (if all in base conctat) 1 support attack with 2 rank and 1 support attack on third rank. So basically if someone charge you, you ha 21 attacks.
 
Here is a concern that I have on the "fun" side

With initiative of 1 and 2 attacks we are rarely going to want our infantry to charge other infantry unless we can strike first.

I did the maths on swordmasters - we have a small but significant advantage if they charge us. If we charge them we will get obliterated.
 
discomute said:
Here is a concern that I have on the "fun" side

With initiative of 1 and 2 attacks we are rarely going to want our infantry to charge other infantry unless we can strike first.

I did the maths on swordmasters - we have a small but significant advantage if they charge us. If we charge them we will get obliterated.
Click to expand...
Renegade Temple guard (I2) + bastiladon solar engine got I 3. In charge I6. Maybe not enough for swordmasters but it would be enough for most of other infantries.
 
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