8th Ed. 2500 point list idea; monster heavy

[Anubris]

So far I've only played at around 1k points. Character wise I've only played with skink priests and scar-vets. I want to make some kind of template list and try it out(using stand-ins or just flat bases maybe). I hope it will guide me in my decisions on what units I want to buy next.

The list I thought of:
2500 point list Lizardmen

Lords (460)

General: Saurus oldblood, light armour, carnosaur, burning blade of chotec, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, carnosaur pendant, ironcurse icon (460)

Heroes (625)

Skink priest, level 2, ancient stegadon with engine of the gods, dawnstone, diadem of power or dispel scroll (440)

Saurus scar-veteran, battle standard bearer, cold one, light armour, glyph necklace, venom of the firely frog, dragonhelm (185)

Core units

-25 Saurus warriors, full command (305)
-10 skink skirmishers (70)
-10 skink skirmishers (70)
-29 skinks, 3 kroxigor, musician, standard bearer (324)

Special units

-3 Terradon riders (90)
-5 Chameleon skinks (60)
-5 Chameleon skinks (60)

Rare units

-Salamander hunting pack, extra snack (80)
-Salamander hunting pack, extra snack (80)
-Ancient stegadon (275)

Total: 2499

My thoughts/comments on the list:

-I never tried out a Slann, but I really like the kroq-gar carnosaur model (I'm not the only one I suppose ). Playing a slann is definitely something I would try as well, but I'm a huge dinosaur fan so I guess I'll buy the carnosaur model anyway.

-Oldblood equipment: I thought this equipment gives him a solid chance to kill a monster or something ethereal (magical and flaming attacks to stop regeneration), keep initiative 4 (even though its not that great), 1+ AS (scaly skin 4+, mounted, LA, shield), 4+ ward save. The charmed shield is meant to deflect the first canonball shot at him!

-I thought the ironcurse icon for 5 points might prove handy in case my opponent starts off first and shoots a cannonball at my carnosaur (in this case I cannot activate the EoTG in time). But I am not entirely sure whether the item has effect on the carnosaur? (does the carnosaur count as being in ''the same unit''?).

-Carnosaur pendant for extra attack. I got two questions though: 1) Does the carnosaurs own frenzy (including extra attack) transfer to the old blood? Some people on other forums were claiming this to be true but it sounds wrong. 2) If you are fighting with oldblood(+pendant) or carnosaur and inflict an unsaved wound, do you get an extra attack in THAT round of combat or the next round of combat?

-Other items I considered were:
Crown of command and The other tricksters shard

- For the priest: do you guys think a cube of darkness is worth it? I heard many people being enthousiastic about a dawnstone (I agree but haven't tested it for real), which means I could add a dispell scroll or the diadem of power. Any ideas on what might be best?

-Scar-veteran BSB. I figured a BSB is really great at 2k + points, but I have no idea how to use it. If it loses combat and has to flee it dies, so I suppose careful play? Should I put him in my saurus unit or field him as a lone character? I didn't have alot of freedom on the equipment due to point limits (625 points for heroes which is filled for 100%). My current build gives him stupidity from the coldone (but it should be rerollable because he is the BSB?), a 1+ AS (5+ scaly skin, cold one, LA, dragonhelm) and a 5+ ward save. I decided for VoTFF because it's a cheap way to give him magical attacks and wounding on 6 is never wrong!
I got one specific question about the scar-vet BSB: Can you let him fight with a 2-hander or a 1h + shield? I don't have the points for a 2-hander in this specific setup but maybe I should think about it?

-Stegadon/Ancient stegadon choice. I couldn't properly convince myself which one was better. The baby steg has more attacks, but lower strenght and a long range penetrating arrow. This sounds pretty good.
The ancient steg has S6 but one less attack, and double blowpipes. I chose the ancient steg because I like the idea of moving it close to enemies, fire blowpipes and charge when I can. The baby steg seems more like the ''stand in the back and fire'' kind of guy. What do you guys think?

General idea for the army:

1 backbone core unit (saurus warriors, which might contain the BSB?), and several fast moving units. The skink skirmishers are mainly to screen the rest of the army, shoot and redirect enemies. Skrox can keep up with the rest of the army or help out the saurus. Terradons and charmeleon skinks have to take out war machines or annoy enemy wizards, buying time for the carno lord and priest to get into the fray. Salamanders can march and fire, allowing them to move ahead as well and thin out the enemy R&F units. The carnosaur lord could opt to either kill monsters on its own (carnosaur has D3 wounds and the old blood has flaming attacks) or make a combined charge with 1 or 2 stegadons on other units.
The biggest drawback of the list is the weakness against war machines and a weak magic phase. I try to counter this by using chameleon skinks + terradons, the EoTG bubble to protect carnosaur/itself/other units, equip my characters with ward saves. Another way to look at the war machines is target saturation.
The weak magic phase (no slann) is countered by having a lv 3 wizard, combined with a dispell scroll or the diadem of power. The engines magical effects cannot be dispelled, which is great for this list.

I'm sorry if its a long read and I hope you can give me some feedback

 

[n810]

(does the carnosaur count as being in ''the same unit''?).

YEP

ps. Baby Stegs are more like, take pot shot on the first turn, and charge as soon as possible.
(Giant bow rarely hits anything)

 

[david l]

-I thought the ironcurse icon for 5 points might prove handy

It's certainly worth the cost when you don't have another enchanted item ... except you have another enchanted item.

-Carnosaur pendant for extra attack. I got two questions though: 1) Does the carnosaurs own frenzy (including extra attack) transfer to the old blood? Some people on other forums were claiming this to be true but it sounds wrong. 2) If you are fighting with oldblood(+pendant) or carnosaur and inflict an unsaved wound, do you get an extra attack in THAT round of combat or the next round of combat?
-Other items I considered were:
Crown of command and The other tricksters shard

I think the frenzy would not transfer either direction, although 8th edition is so badly worded in that regard it is hard to say for certain.
You could not get the extra attack immediately, because you already rolled your attacks before gaining another one.
Generally the other items are superior to the Carnosaur pendant. This model won't notice gaining one more attack, but it will notice being Stubborn or making enemies re-roll ward saves.



Your BSB build is okay. Probably he hangs with the Saurus, moving out if there is a specific reason. Hopefully he won't get templated.
If you have a special weapon, you must use it, so you never get the option of choosing between shield and two-handed weapon once you've bought both.

The giant bow is so inaccurate it isn't really worth considering. You can get lucky and have it do some real damage, but mostly you use the bow when you reach the shooting phase and discover that you can legally shoot it.

 

[n810]

"If you have a special weapon, you must use it, so you never get the option of choosing between shield and two-handed weapon once you've bought both."

You get use your shield against ranged attacks if you have a 2-handed weapon....
(Temple guard for instance)

 

[Anubris]

Thanks for the feedback so far! I've made some slight adjustments as shown below:

Lords (450)

General: Saurus oldblood, light armour, carnosaur, burning blade of chotec, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, the other tricksters shard (450)

Heroes (621)

Skink priest, level 2, ancient stegadon with engine of the gods, dawnstone, diadem of power or dispel scroll (440)

Saurus scar-veteran, battle standard bearer, cold one, armour of fortune, venom of the firely frog, great weapon (181)

Core units (784)

-25 Saurus warriors, full command (305)
-10 skink skirmishers (70)
-10 skink skirmishers (70)
-32 skinks, 3 kroxigor, musician, standard bearer (339)

Special units (210)

-3 Terradon riders (90)
-5 Chameleon skinks (60)
-5 Chameleon skinks (60)

Rare units (435)

-Salamander hunting pack, extra snack (80)
-Salamander hunting pack, extra snack (80)
-Ancient stegadon (275)

2500 exact.

The comments on ironcurse icon/carnosaur pendant were especially helpful, I didn't realize I was using 2 enchanted items I think the other tricksters shard is best combined with the items I already had. If I would want crown of command, I'd have to pass up the burning blade (assuming you take either enchanted shield + talisman of preservation or the armour of destiny). This also implies you cannot take VotFF (ench. item just like crown) --> take either greatweapon/halberd. I think this could also work, but you would lack magical attacks (ethereal enemies) or flaming attacks (monsters). Moreover, the carnosaur has strength 7 itself. What do you guys think on this matter?

I slightly modified the equipment on the scar-vet BSB. It seems that the rule book has to specifically state it if you BSB cannot take a great weapon and such. So I decided to free up some points for a great weapon, allowing the scar-vet to really pack a punch to my saurus warrior unit (while also being on a cold one if he is needed elsewhere). The armour of fortune instead of glyph necklace, light armour and dragonhelm frees up enough points for this (I do lose the 2+ ward save against flaming attacks this way).

I spent the freed up points on a few extra skinks for the Skrox.

It's sad to hear that the giant bow is unreliable for damage. I guess I should ''stick'' with the ancient steg in that case. I have one specific question about the ancient steg. I read in the lizardmen FAQ that the giant bow cannot use stand and shoot, but the giant blowpipes can. Does that mean you get 2x 2D6 shots in a stand and shoot reaction? (with a -1 penalty for stand and shoot, and possibly another -1 for long range, meaning 2x 2D6 shots, which will wound on 6s?). Also for normal skink skirmishers, are you allowed to use the multiple shots rule when using a stand and shoot reaction or is this against the rules?

 

[david l]

You'll normally get 4d6+3 shots on stand-and-shoot. The extra 3 is the other three crew with javelins. Hitting on 6s for poison autowound, so about 3 wounds before saves.

The giant blowpipes should consistently put out a few wounds (before saves). The giant bow will occasionally do more damage, but most shots will do nothing at all, which means you should always choose combat over shooting with it.

 

[Anubris]

Ok sounds fair enough. Me and my brother have made the idea to do test games at 2.4k points (cap at a yearly local tournament). I will have to remove 100 points from the current list; the biggest issue is the hero allowance. I can't make up my mind on whether to take diadem of power or a dispel scroll in conjuction with the dawnstone, but for 2.4k points I can only take one of these items. Furthermore, I will probably have to remove 1 sally or a chamo unit. The special tourny rules state that I cannot use rare duplicates, so if I want to keep the double salamanders for the tourny list they will have to go together.
You guys got any ideas how to gently remove 100 points without ruining the setup?