8th Ed. 2500 list, new LM player here

[TheGreatFatSlann]

Overall: 2494


Lords: 480

Slann Mage-Priest (Lore of High Magic) – Disciplines: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, Soul of Stone / Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Focus of Mystery; BSB: Razor Standard / Standard of Discipline; Magic Items: Channeling Staff, The Egg of Quango [i wasn't sure between SoS (only on a 4 and a 10 can it make a big difference) and BC (ive aleady got 2 effective dispel scrolls), or whether i should take 4 disciplines at all. he would be bunkered up in the TG, and the Egg would - potentially - help against some nasty stuff]


Heroes: 460

Saurus Scar-Veteran – Light Armor; Magic Items: Sword of Anti-Heroes, Charmed Shield, Luckstone, Potion of Speed [you'll notice how he isnt the standard cowboy on a CO with a 1+ AS (only 3+ here). thats primarily because i couldnt squeeze in the points, and i know a cav model in infantry has some handicaps (just not sure which ones exactly, if someone could enlighten me?). he's mostly intended to kill enemy characters in big blocks, and will be in the horde of saurus]

Skink Chief – Light Armor, Shield; Mount: Ripperdactyl; Magic Items: The Piranha Blade [on paper, an excellent warmachine hunter. ive yet to see if he would work out, but between the ripper's KB and the chief's multi-wounds, i dont see why not]

Skink Priest (Lore of Beasts) – Level 1; Magic Items: Cube of Darkness

Skink Priest (Lore of Beasts) – Level 1; Magic Items: Dispel Scroll


Core: 632

Saurus Warriors x 42 – Hand Weapon + Shield, Spawn Leader, Musician, Standard Bearer [horde formation, scar-vet goes in here]

Skink Skirmishers x 10

Skink Skirmishers x 10 [no points for the Patrol Leaders, unfortunately, but i dont think theyre that valuable]


Special: 427

Temple Guard x 28 – Revered Guardian, Musician, Standard Bearer [with a slann in the 2nd rank, they would be 8 wide and 4 deep]

?Bastiladon – Solar Engine? [the ?s are there to mark that i havent taken this unit nor did i count it against the overall cost of the army. he was a potential candidate, but i havent ONCE seen a bastiladon do something grand in any battle report ive watched; hence, ive discarded him]


Rare: 500

Ancient Stegadon – Sharpened Horns

Ancient Stegadon – Sharpened Horns [these guys, on the other hand, ive seen plow through enemies like butter, and the prospect of losing your only steg to a well-placed cannon ball frightens me to no end; hence, ive taken two. also, neither have the EOtG]

?Salamander Hunting Pack x 2 –Additional Skink Handler x 2? [the ?s here also symbolize that this is a unit that ive neither taken nor counted against the overall cost. salamanders can, however, excel at their role of burning down large, low toughness, low armor units such as elves, goblins, etc, but i simply had no points left for them]


I'm fairly inexperienced in actual fighting, only played a few games with a mate who plays orcs and goblins (i won most, but his wyvern-mounted black orc warboss made my lizards sweat), but ive watched just about every battle report out there that features lizardmen. unfortunately, lizards lost most of the BRs ive watched; there were, admittedly, some crappy lists and poor positioning out there, but there were also times when the guy simply failed 3 charges in a row or lost a slann and a steg in the 1st turn due to a miscast and a cannon ball.

what can lizards do against war machines?

what can they do against big ugly demon princes and the like?

what can they do about gaint black orc / chaos warrior horde deathstars that out-stat them tremendously?

and also, why do people keep making their Scar-vet, for example, a BSB, and then give him some magic items? it clearly states on pages 86 and 89 of the LM armybook "A Saurus Scar-Veteran or Skink Chief that carries a magic standard cannot have any other magic items. A Slann Mage-Priest, however, may have a magic standard (with no points limit) as well as having his normal access of up to 100 points of magic items."

thanks for any replies

 

[Gary_M]

Quite new myself, but here's my 2p worth:

Slann - I've seen so many people complain that SoS has had no effect when they miscast - I never take it. Not sure if I'm reading your list correctly, but I believe you can only have one magic standard. I'm guessing that one will be with the Slann and the other with the TG Std Bearer, but not sure.

Scar Vet - Personally I prefer the 1+ AS and some kind of ward from armour together with a GW but personal preference only. I don't have the rule book handy but I think the issue with a cavalry figure with foot is something to so with LOS rolls but could well be wrong.
Re the magic items when a Scar Vet is BSB - This only applies if he has a magic standard - BSB is not magic as far as I'm aware. So IMO a SV can be BSB and have, for example, a magic weapon or magic armour etc. However if he is BSB and is given, say, the Razor Standard, then he can't have any other magic items, only mundane ones.

Skink Chief - Never used one, not going to comment, although have read batreps where the Egg has been with this guy. Results obviously hit or miss but when its a hit, it does seem to be quite funny!

Priests - Standard. Possibly only take one and move either scroll or cube to the slann?

Core - 42 SW buffed with the bigger version of Hand of Glory would likely cause a few problems.

However, while I love SW, I also appreciate the need for skinks and usually run a max of 3 x 10. This is enough for me, but inadequate for others. I don't think you've enough with only 2 x 10.

If you reduce SW to 35 (+ FC) I think you can afford 3 x 10 skink skirmishers at 625 points (which is exactly the min aount of points required to = 25% of the army).

TG - Nice - See above re standards.

Basti - Personally I like this little chap. The bound spell is usefull for eating dispel dice, and the Init buff is handy but only so so.

Stegs - Oh yes! (Personally only got one steg model so use this and the basti but might proxy the latter for an anc steg in my next game)

Sallies - Personally I haven't yet got the hang of these guys yet, although I do like razordons (esp if buffed to increase BS!)

I've not played too much against warmachines but from what I've read, consensus of opinion is chamo skinks and terradons.

Will leave the other questions to more experienced players but as a guess I'd say more skinks/re-directors and stay out of the way until you are ready to fight on your terms, not theirs. Easier said than done I know.

 

[TheGreatFatSlann]

Thanks for the copious reply

To answer the magic standard issue, i was only thinking of taking one magic standard and it would be on the slann (no love for the TG standard bearer im afraid) and wasnt sure which one would be better. the Razor one would do wonders against high armor units, but its also much more expensive, whereas the Discipline one would give me a 10 LD slann and 9 LD TG which is minor but still nice.

Nice points on the Scar-vet, his stats are undoubtedly better with a CO and GW, but then he's ASL. i was kinda afraid of issuing a challenge and then getting cut down before i made my attacks, hence the potion of speed, but i guess with a 1+ 1+ 4+ that would rarely happen. still, you must admit that the - unlikely - prospect of getting +3S +3A when an opponent has jabbed two heroes and mage, for instance, in a single unit sounds tempting. Also, in light of what youve told me about the BSB, i might make the scar-vet the BSB.

I cant move either the scroll or the cube to the slann since his arcane items are locked down due to channeling staff, and i'd really like to have both. plus two priests means 33% to get Transformation of Kadon

Seeing as i have very little practical experience, i'm not sure i'd manage my chaff and redirectors too handsomely, tbh i've only put in these 2 units of skinks cos everyone else seems to be doing it lol.

I agree on both points about the bastiladon, but i dont think the slann is too fond of sharing his PD (except for Kadon) and 150 points for a +1 init buff sounds overpriced.

I've also only got one steg, im just making a hypothetical list here which, if im satisfied with, i will go out and purchase.

I've tried chamo skinks against my OnG friend's war machines and he always one shot them with ruby ring of ruin or in some other disgraceful manner, and theyve only gotten more expensive now.

 

[Gary_M]

Hehe - It was a bit of a lengthy reply!

If you're going to use your TG and Slann offensively (I don't mean rudely ) then one standard combo that might be 'fun' would be the Skaven Pelt banner on the Slann and the Razor Standard on the TG - More points, but frenzy and AP for the TG, with the potential to buff further via Hand of Glory....

I have seen a lot of other lizardmen players use Razor on TG and Discipline on Slann for the combined effect.

Re the Scar vet, with, for example, Armour of Destiny (I think), the SV gets a 1+ AS and 4+ ward save, so becomes very survivable even hitting last when using a GW.

I found my initial SV builds were trying to counter the lack of initiative. Reading the posts on the forum has convinced me that it is better to be survivable and hit last, but hit with +2 Str. Usually works in my experience. That said I have seen the sword of anti heroes used very effectively in just the situation you say. At the end of the day personal preference.

Chaff / redirectors do take some practice to get right and I freely admit I'm not there yet, but practice makes perfect. That said I'm not a fan of skink hordes even though they are competitive.

You're are right on the basti point as well. Again I think this is down to personal preference. With High Magic I think the basti is uselful. If using WD then defintiely not as there are more than enough spells of similar effect.

I think warmachine hunting (like chaff / redirecting) is a skill learned! I too have tried it with chamo skinks and got mashed in the process!

Not quite as long a reply this time.

 

[TheGreatFatSlann]

By no means did i comment on the lengthy reply in a negative way, i was actually very pleased that you pointed out the faults and inconsistencies in my list.
I agree that the razor standard has some merit and ill try squeezing it in, but i think the skavenpelt is just too pricy. the razor on TG and discipline on slann is a cool idea.
Taking armor of destiny on the scar-vet is exactly what i meant.
I would like to get a bastiladon in there as well, the +1 initi can be useful and the laser beam can be a dispel dice eater for the opponent, but i dont believe ill be able to put him in with 2 ancients steg (which i REALLY want to board)
Ill give my list some more thought and post the tweaked version as soon as i complete it.
Cheers for the advice

 

[Gary_M]

No offence taken - No worries.

The only other advice I would give is use what you are happy using and suit your playing style.

Same goes with magic. I've used High and like it. But while others like Life, I can see the benefits, but never really got to grips with it. Down to my own incompetance but there you go.

I know that skink clouds are competitive, but I want to use Saurus, so I do.

If you think your list had some inconsistencies or faults, you should have seen some of my early ones!

To be honest, I might try without the Basti to begin with to keep the PD for the slann and Beast Priests (double Wyssans can be fun!) as you said originally - Go with double stegs and let the good times roll! (but beware of those cannons)

Good luck in your games - let us all know how you get on.

 

[TheGreatFatSlann]

Overall: 2497


Lords: 470

Slann Mage-Priest (Lore of High Magic) – The General; Disciplines: Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, Harmonic Convergence, Focus of Mystery; BSB: Standard of Discipline; Magic Items: Channeling Staff, The Egg of Quango [bunkered in the TG]


Heroes: 473

Saurus Scar-Veteran – Great Weapon; Mount: Cold One; Magic Items: Armor of Destiny [either in the saurus horde or out on his own cowboying]

Skink Chief – Light Armor, Shield; Mount: Ripperdactyl; Magic Items: The Piranha Blade [war machine hunter]

Skink Priest (Lore of Beasts) – Level 1; Magic Items: Cube of Darkness [wyssan's, potential Kadon, cube caddy]

Skink Priest (Lore of Beasts) – Level 1; Magic Items: Dispel Scroll [wyssan's, potential Kadon, dispel scroll caddy]


Core: 632

Saurus Warriors x 42 – Hand Weapon + Shield, Spawn Leader, Musician, Standard Bearer [horde formation]

Skink Skirmishers x 10 [chaff]

Skink Skirmishers x 10 [chaff]


Special: 422

Temple Guard x 28 – Revered Guardian, Musician, Standard Bearer [slann bunker but also great fighting unit. 8 long and 4 deep]


Rare: 500

Ancient Stegadon – Sharpened Horns [tool of destruction]

Ancient Stegadon – Sharpened Horns [tool of destruction #2]

This list is only slightly changed, with the main difference being on the scar-vet.
Perhaps once i get better with controlling chaff and learn how to utilize them to the max, i might throw in another unit of skinks, but for now i think they'd just die due to my incompetence.
I might reconsider the piranha blade on the chief cos its so expensive and i dont want him dying in turn 1, but ill see how it works out.
If faced against elves or hordy skaven, i will definitely throw in a few salamanders (2-3 sounds perfect) but i'm not sure what i'd throw out for them.