8th Ed. 2500 league list(s)

[Scalenex]

So my local store is starting an informal WHF league. Pretty simple. You make an all-comers list, play whenever you want and keep track of your win loss-percentages. BRB scenarios

Changing lists is highly discouraged. This makes me a sad panda. I like to play radically different lists every time but I'll run with this. Playing the same list consistently is one way to tweak your skills. Also we get two lists. Two lists per army. So I'm going to get some variety from hopping between my LM and Empire lists.

Lately I think I've done WD Slann to death. Also despite never using more than dice and taking Soul of Stone on every list, I still am rolling catastrophic miscasts that take out way too many Temple Guard. Also my Temple Guard and Kroxigor tend to step on each other's toes deployment wise. Because of these two things, I'm ditching the Temple Guard.

I am nearly finished with a fluff piece that involves the lore of Shadows a lot, so Shadows is on my brain, so I'm building a list to synergize around a solo Shadow Slann.

Lizardmen List

Slann, Lore of Shadow. Becalming Congition, Higher State of Consciousness, Harmonic Convergence, Channeling Staff

Saurus Scar Veteran BSB on foot with Armor of Destiny and Shield
Saurus Scar Veteran on foot with hand weapon Charmed Shield, Opal Amulet, and Egg of Quango
Skink Priest on foot, L2 Lore of Beast, Dispel Scroll
(my Scar Vets are not on Cold Ones in case I want to Smoke and Mirrors to replace my floundering Slann with a badass Saurus).

27 Hand Weapon Saurus Warriors with Full Command
27 Hand Weapon Saurus Warriors with Full Command
20 Cohort Skinks with Full Command (because they always do great when there are buildings)
12 Skink Skirmishers with Patrol Leader (13 with the Skink Priest)

7 Kroxigors with Ancient
8 Chameleon Skinks with Stalker (yes Stalkers are probably not worth 10 points, but I am proud of my Stalker conversion)

2 Razordons
1 Salamander with one extra snack
1 Salamander with one extra snack

I only have one unit that hits at high strength, but I'm hoping Wyssans and the Withering will make up for this.

Empire List

Arch lector on foot with Armor of Destiny, Shield, Iron Curse Icon
L4 Battle Wizard Lord on foot with Lore of Heavens, Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll, Ruby Ring of Ruin

Captain BSB on foot with great weapon and Armor of Meteoric Iron (automatic 1+ AS with 6+ Ward)

10 archers with Musician and two 5-man archer detachments (screen)
10 archers with full command and no detachments (wizard bunker)
10 crossbowmen with musician and standard bearer
8 Inner Circle Knights with great weapons and full command and War Banner

4 Bear Knights with Full Command (I use bears in lieu of Demigryphons, who wants to ride chickens into battle?)
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
37 Great Swords with Full Command, Standard of Discipline and two 14-man Swordsmen detachments

Celestial Hurricanum

Basically I'm trying out the Griffon Claw Formation with a badass unit of cavalry on both flanks.. In fact I built my collection around this concept.


I can still tweak either list because I haven't played a game yet. I am not sure what I want my second lists to be. My only requirement is that must be dissimilar. I have a ludicrous collection so I can do almost anything except dual Carnosaurs. I am thinking of going something crazy like a 14 Kroxigor list or maybe a Monster Mash with no Slann.

I don't have a lot of options for Empire. The only Empire models I own that I'm not using are a few bears, eight or so more knights, a Hellblaster Gun, and a very large menagerie of characters. A cavalry to the face army seems a little dull to me. I prefer the combined arms approach of my Empire army above.n Maybe I'll be more eager to try it when I get Marius Leitdorf finished, but the OOP metal model cost me an arm and leg, so I'm using kid gloves on that particular SC.

 

[Pinktaco]

Sounds like a lot of fun, but if your kroxies die before they can kill any heavily armored units I think it'll be hard for you to do anything about it. Wyssans on the saurus is obviously an option, but that would be relying on your lvl 2 priest. It could be dangerous, but in sure you're aware of this.

Isn't it possible to squeeze in 2 more cameleons though? I personally like 10 more than 8 due to the better reliability.

I'm assuming a hero in each saurus unit for extra punch?

 

[Scalenex]

Sounds like a lot of fun, but if your kroxies die before they can kill any heavily armored units I think it'll be hard for you to do anything about it. Wyssans on the saurus is obviously an option, but that would be relying on your lvl 2 priest. It could be dangerous, but in sure you're aware of this.

Isn't it possible to squeeze in 2 more cameleons though? I personally like 10 more than 8 due to the better reliability.

I'm assuming a hero in each saurus unit for extra punch?

The seventh Kroxigor is purely to absorb hits.

I can add more Chamo Skinks if I trim back my Saurus Warriors a bit. The Saurus are there for extra punch. Do you think I should go with Halberds or great weapons on either of them? I'm half-worried this will cost them precious armor saves, but high strength hits are tempting.

 

[Pinktaco]

Sounds like a lot of fun, but if your kroxies die before they can kill any heavily armored units I think it'll be hard for you to do anything about it. Wyssans on the saurus is obviously an option, but that would be relying on your lvl 2 priest. It could be dangerous, but in sure you're aware of this.

Isn't it possible to squeeze in 2 more cameleons though? I personally like 10 more than 8 due to the better reliability.

I'm assuming a hero in each saurus unit for extra punch?

The seventh Kroxigor is purely to absorb hits.

I can add more Chamo Skinks if I trim back my Saurus Warriors a bit. The Saurus are there for extra punch. Do you think I should go with Halberds or great weapons on either of them? I'm half-worried this will cost them precious armor saves, but high strength hits are tempting.

Well here's a thing. A S7 model in the unit will, to some degree, scare those heavily armoured units since our regular saurus won't do that. Putting a scar vet on foot is, as you pointed out, risky due to their inability to gain regular heavy armour and you'll be limited with defensive magic items, at least for 2 scar vets.

Hm.. One way to do something about it is by putting the scar vets on a CO in the unit. They'd still get a 4+ LOS. I'm not sure though..

How about this:

OB w/ GW, +4 ward talisman, dragon helm, LA - has a 2+/4+.
SV w/ GW, AoD - has a 3+/4+.

But truth be told I haven't used on foot "cowboys" a lot so I can't really say how it would work out. One could also argue that you should put both characters in one unit, but that would make people avoid it.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

I can't really comment on the Lizardmen army (as I played only one battle against my daughter of 11 with my Empire army and lost... 1k battle)

But I do know my Empire. And I have messed around with the Griffon list.

I can say, that I don't like the archers for anything besides redirecting and using 2x 10 is too much in my mind for that.. So I use the inverted griffon list now in that. Dropping 1 unit of archers makes a bit of room for 2 more ICK or Greatswords + 1 sword per detachment (I use halberdiers x50 for my main block)

I also would swap 1 GC for a HBVG and add an Engineer to aid that.. It's a great area of denial warmachine.
I'm also not sold on the crossbows (all BS shooting besides the HBVG is crap in empire) but it might be a nice choice for building occupation.

Also the AOMI is better for your AL.. (my) typical build for the Captain is FPA, Enchanted Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone for a 1+ re-rollable (Empie BSB is pivitol for the army) leaving some points for a magical sword (for ethereals)

Some are also not sold on taking a SB in the Demibears as it might break you loose alot of attacks just there. (And I have had them break enough to not take one anymore..)

 

[Scalenex]

I can't really comment on the Lizardmen army (as I played only one battle against my daughter of 11 with my Empire army and lost... 1k battle)

But I do know my Empire. And I have messed around with the Griffon list.

I can say, that I don't like the archers for anything besides redirecting and using 2x 10 is too much in my mind for that.. So I use the inverted griffon list now in that. Dropping 1 unit of archers makes a bit of room for 2 more ICK or Greatswords + 1 sword per detachment (I use halberdiers x50 for my main block)

I never thought of the upside of an inverted griffin being you could use fewer troops

I also would swap 1 GC for a HBVG and add an Engineer to aid that.. It's a great area of denial warmachine.
I'm also not sold on the crossbows (all BS shooting besides the HBVG is crap in empire) but it might be a nice choice for building occupation.

I hoped to put them in front of my cannons, also they help me pay my 25% Core tax

Also the AOMI is better for your AL.. (my) typical build for the Captain is FPA, Enchanted Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone for a 1+ re-rollable (Empie BSB is pivitol for the army) leaving some points for a magical sword (for ethereals)

Ethereals are a problem, but your proposed build is not legal. One character cannot have two pieces of magic armor. I'm hoping a L4 Heavens priests will get one of the two lighnting spells each game. Between that and the Ruby Ring I like to think I can kill the ethereals at range.

Some are also not sold on taking a SB in the Demibears as it might break you loose alot of attacks just there. (And I have had them break enough to not take one anymore..)

Perhaps the Gleaming Pennant would be a good idea for some cheap insurance? It would probably help me more than the Iron Curse Icon

Anyway since I was not sure what to do for a second Empire list, an inverted Griffin might be just the way to make a significantly different army within my limited model constraints. What do you think of:

Battle Wizard Lord, L4 Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Lore of Beasts

Battle Priest with Armor of Destiny
Captain of the Empire BSB, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great Weapon
Captain of the Empire, Pegasus, Imperial Armor, Charmed Shield, Warrior Bane Full Peg upgrades
Master Engineer with Light Armor

10 Archers, FC with two 5 man archer detachments
2 x 9 Knights with great weapons and Full Comamnd

2 x Great Cannon
36 Great Swords with 15 man Swordsmen Detachments, FC and Standard of Discipline

Celestial Hurricanum
Hellblaster Volley Gun

Initially I thought of taking a L4 Shadow Caster and swapping one of the Cannons for a Mortar but that seems a little too similar to using a Shadow Slann to soften up enemies before hitting them with Salamanders.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

I can't really comment on the Lizardmen army (as I played only one battle against my daughter of 11 with my Empire army and lost... 1k battle)

But I do know my Empire. And I have messed around with the Griffon list.

I can say, that I don't like the archers for anything besides redirecting and using 2x 10 is too much in my mind for that.. So I use the inverted griffon list now in that. Dropping 1 unit of archers makes a bit of room for 2 more ICK or Greatswords + 1 sword per detachment (I use halberdiers x50 for my main block)

I never thought of the upside of an inverted griffin being you could use fewer troops

I also would swap 1 GC for a HBVG and add an Engineer to aid that.. It's a great area of denial warmachine.
I'm also not sold on the crossbows (all BS shooting besides the HBVG is crap in empire) but it might be a nice choice for building occupation.

I hoped to put them in front of my cannons, also they help me pay my 25% Core tax

Ah yes the problem of using GS instead of Halberdiers is your core%..

Also the AOMI is better for your AL.. (my) typical build for the Captain is FPA, Enchanted Shield, Dragonhelm, Dawnstone for a 1+ re-rollable (Empie BSB is pivitol for the army) leaving some points for a magical sword (for ethereals)

Ethereals are a problem, but your proposed build is not legal. One character cannot have two pieces of magic armor. I'm hoping a L4 Heavens priests will get one of the two lighnting spells each game. Between that and the Ruby Ring I like to think I can kill the ethereals at range.

Woops not the enchanted shield but a normal one for 2+ re-rollable, I haven't had much experience in magicing ethereals as I usually have other targets for my wizard, so that could work

Some are also not sold on taking a SB in the Demibears as it might break you loose alot of attacks just there. (And I have had them break enough to not take one anymore..)

Perhaps the Gleaming Pennant would be a good idea for some cheap insurance? It would probably help me more than the Iron Curse Icon

Anyway since I was not sure what to do for a second Empire list, an inverted Griffin might be just the way to make a significantly different army within my limited model constraints. What do you think of:

Battle Wizard Lord, L4 Dispel Scroll, Talisman of Preservation, Lore of Beasts

Lore of beasts now? And where is your AL? you suffer now from lower Ld (and you don't want a squishy wizard to be easy General VC)

Battle Priest with Armor of Destiny
Captain of the Empire BSB, Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great Weapon
Captain of the Empire, Pegasus, Imperial Armor, Charmed Shield, Warrior Bane Full Peg upgrades
Master Engineer with Light Armor

10 Archers, FC with two 5 man archer detachments
2 x 9 Knights with great weapons and Full Comamnd
Use GW knights and think how they perform, usual option is the lances as Empire does have some chances to strike first or simultanous with I3)

2 x Great Cannon
36 Great Swords with 15 man Swordsmen Detachments, FC and Standard of Discipline

Celestial Hurricanum
Hellblaster Volley Gun

Initially I thought of taking a L4 Shadow Caster and swapping one of the Cannons for a Mortar but that seems a little too similar to using a Shadow Slann to soften up enemies before hitting them with Salamanders.

Mortar with S2 is too costly now for doing nearly nothing anyway.. but you now have 3 artillery pieces, I would drop 1 cannon to make your AL happen instead f your WP

Peg captain is really good