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8th Ed. 2400 Tournament All-Around Army

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Skink

Puhnupetteri

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Hello there. This is my first post on these forums

I have played multiple games, mostly againts Dwarfs, High Elves and Beastmens

My dwarf opponent usually playes 2 GW Longbeard unit, 1 IB unit and 1 Ranger Longbeard units, And multiple cannons (2 Organgun, 1 Grudgethrower, 1 Cannon)

Beastmen opponent usually playes 2 large horde of core units, 1 minotaur unit with 7 minotaur and some 200-300 point heroes and 1 lord

All armys are according rule's of ETC

And here is my armylist for tournaments. I would need some suggestions how to upgrade or make my armylist better in you eyes. My armylist is designed for all different armyes in tournaments. And i have based my armylist according my experience againts Beastmens, Dwarfs and High Elves

I always choose lore of heaven when i play

2400Pts
Lord
455pts Slann mage priest . 4 Ancient discipline,(Souls of stone, The focus of rumination, Focus of mystery, The becalming Cogitation), And magic item Divine plaque of protection

Hero:
158 Saurus Scar Veteran With BS, light armor and shield and BS with Sun standar of Chotec

355 Skink Priest with ancient stegadon

Core:
SW 30 FCG (6 Length, 5 Widht)
SW 25 FCG Spears (5 Lengt 5 width )

SS 11

Special
10 CS

6x CO , FCG, Huanci Blessed Totem

16 TG With nothing special

Total 2400 Pts

Usually my tactic is if there is not so many Missile / cannon troops as opponent (High Elves , Beastmens) I Sit like duck with TG on middle, And both sides SW squad and skinks harras opponents and drop meteors with slann, Slann deals with All dispelling usually with his ancient disciplines and As lvl 4 he gets lot bonus.

If there is lot missile and cannons skinks first job is to destroy cannons. And i advance forward. Scar Veteran BS within all my SW and TG within 12'. With Slann 9 LD makes good deal of most opponents. And Stegadon Gives 5+ Ward for all missiles and BS bearer magic banner protects 1 SW unit.

Co= Cold one
FCG = Full Command Group
SS = Skink Skirmisher
CS= Chameleont skink
SW = SaurusWarrior
TG = Temple Guard

I have read from these forums that Lore Of light is what most people use. Okey i understunt that but Slann that boost '12 all SW and TG units is imo Good. And the Cold ones i know is risky point's cause they are only useful for flanking.. But thats why they are there. Maybe i should still spent those points for adding 6 SW to team with 24 SW.. and taking another skink skirmisher team? Ideas anyone?

Best regards
Puhnupetteri
 
I would consider dropping both your SW units to 24, going 4 deep 6 wide w. spears.

This should leave you enough points for a salamander which will always be worth its points. I'd probably drop the Cold Ones too because other than WoC I haven't seen any cav that have really been worth their points in 8th (especially with only 6 on the field, that's something very easy to slap for ~200 pts). W/O the cold ones you could add a 2nd or 3rd sally or fiddle a slight amount to drop in a second steg or some terradons.

I'd use Lore of Life if this is for tournament play.

Other than those slight tweaks I think the army is pretty awesome and should do very well (I think with ETC rules you can't take cupped hands and focus of rumination at the same time right? Something like that? If you can do it and drop soul of stone).
 
Thank you for your post Yakhunter.

I wonder why is that you recommend taking only 24 SW? As i played againts beastmens they have 2 large horde and chariots that deal great threat if i keep my unit size small. I want to have stedfast to be sure my SW dont run away in combat. I tought many armys use Large units to gain stedfast

So i made few tweaks to my list (Dropped Cold ones) And i took 4 more TG and gave them FCG to cover slann from Challenge's and to win more likely combat resolution /w Musician and banner. Atleast that's solid points because of stubborn, immune to psychology . Solid wall againts anything

And i took 2 salamander hunting pack... 1 salamander in each so my armylist looks now:

2400
LORD
LORE of light
480 pts SMP , 4 Ancient (Soul of stone , focus of mystery, The becalming cogitation, Focus of rumination), plaque of proteciton and dispell scroll

HERO
158 Scar Veteran with BSB lightarmor and shield
355 Skink Priest /w Ancient stegadon and lvl 2 mage

CORE
360 SWx30 FCG (6lenght 5 deep)
330 SWx25 FCG and spears (5 Length 5 Deep)
70pts SS x 10

SPECIAL:
120pts CS x 10
355pts TG x 20 FCG

RARE
85 ptsSalamander hunting pack /w 5 handler

85 pts Salamander hunting pack /w 5 handler
 
You cannot take more than 1 extra handler =)

I would 100% drop the soul of stone item as its 50 points and in the rulebook there is an item which lets you do the EXACT same thing for 25 points the 'earthing rod'

By dropping soul of stone and picking up the earthing rod (replacing the dispel scroll) you could then afford to make your Slann a BSB.

Having your scar vetran as a BSB is not worth it especially with the fact you have only given him a shield and light armour. The 2 wounds can easily be cut through by any character and your BSB is essential for fortitude and the re-rolls a key part of your army.

If you want to keep him as you scar vetran you must tank him up with as much magic protection as possible including items like dawnstone (reroll armour saves) or the 4+ ward from the book.

I would advise giving your skink priest the plaque of tepok to give him an extra spell effectively making him a level 3 very cheap.

I would also split your Chameleon skinks into 2 groups as there is little downside to this if they catch you, you loose half the models and points. If you need 10 skinks in 1 place just put them right next to each other like they were in the same unit.
 
Thank you Hiv0r for your posts. As i read your suggestions im getting to think why i didint thought of those changes, because imo they seem very genious :)!

Splitting CS to 2 different group is brilliant idea, for avoiding enemy. And as you suggested i was wondering if 10 shot is enough to bring cannon's down (Need 6's) but as you said i could place them near each other.

The idea of replacing Soul of stone to rulebooks magic item is good idea. Ill make that change right away. And having slann as BSB is good idea cause i keep my both SW and TG unit close to him (acually TG are same unit).

Ill add more magic item's for Scar Veteran.. so that 4+´ward save is from Rule Book right? Is it "legal" to take magic items from Rule book that do not read in army book for common tournaments?

As said thank you Hiv0r and Yakhunter for you posts. Ill getting to think this is "THE LIZARDMEN UBER ARMY".. :)

Oh and what a shame that Salamander's hunting pack can only have 1 extra handler... :/

And last i must say that reason i play big block's of SW (30 hand weapon and 25 spear with 5 rows in each) is that i gain stedfast almost 100% certain. I have noticed in game like Warhammer if something can go wrong. It will go wrong And thats why you have to make every attempt to avoid situations where there is a risk that something might Fail (I have shot with 10 CS to cannon with 3 crew member 4+ to hit for 3 turns without wounding a single of em. And a 25 SW spear team with FCG to run away againts 1 lousy 85point beastman chariot

-Puhnupetteri-
 
give bsb to your slann, drop plaque of 2+ ward and take dragonbanegem (you get LoS! roll when you are in TG, 2+ ranged ward isnt needed)

Focused rumination wont work too well with ETC comps, since you get only 2 extra dices. I suggest dropping it
, Banehead+ Feedback scroll is pretty borken combo for slann ;)
 
I have made changes from all of your feedback's and this is how my list looks now.

Puhnupetteri's Uber lizardman 2400 Point armylist

Lord
450pts SMP - , Earthing Rod, BSB /w War Banner, Focus of mystery, The Focused Rumination,The Becalming Cogitation LORE of LIFE
Hero
105 Scar Veteran, Enchanted Shield, Light armor, hand weapon
405 SP, AS /W EOTG, Plaque of tepok, lvl 2 Wizard upgrade
Core
330pts SW FCG 25 Spear
360pts SW FCG 30 HW
91pts SS 13
Special
72pts CS 6
72pts CS 6
355pts TG 20 FCG
Rare
80pts SHP /w 4 Handler
80pts SHP /w 4 Handler

Am i Correct that Tepok, lvl 2 Upgrade and EOTG make my Skink Priest act like LVL 3 Priest that know's equal amount spells and add Power And dispell dice throw equal amount? Is it wice to put 405 point in 1 unit that can be shot down in first turn?

I do not own atm any terradons and i dont want to proxy too much. Imo this should go well in all-around Tournament (Thanks to your suggestions and improvements!) :)

And juhaaha that Feedbackscroll + bane head combo is just rude =) If i win everyone by ugly combo like that people will never accept to play with me anymore :P I was wondering too if DragonBaneGem really is neccessary.. Ill get 1 SS with that and with LoS as you said i will be save atleast from cannon fire. (Dunno about dragon's thou :rolleyes: )

-Puhnupetteri-
 
I really like the list I cant think of any improvements off the top of my head. Only maybe the scarvet could be mounted to add a bit more speed into the army.

All the plaque of tepok does is give you an extra spell but in this edition of warhammer thats the only real difference and +score to dispel.

I think the engine of the gods gives you -1 to cast all spells with the +2 for him being a level 2 and the 3 spells he has this will be the same as a level 3 in terms of power (although every wizard can throw 6 dice at a spell)

Also maybe you could put a magic banner on the templeguard either the razor banner, flaming banner or leadership banner. They are all good choices.
 
I got second tought's after reading Hiv0r's armylist on same topic. I think ill replace my Skink Priest with EOTG to Skink Chief with Ancient Stegadon. Almost same point's but ill get 2D6+ impact hit, Skink chief is quite good fighter too so with impact hits, stomp, skink chief + crew attack's i think its likely to win combat resolution for againts most medium / light units there is.

+ 4D6 Poison shots is nice. EOTG is so nerfed in 8th Edition : /

After these changes i come to decsicion that my army is now ready for battle =)

Cheers
Puhnupetteri
 
5pts for a 2+ ward vs some dwarf cannons and random flaming attacks isnt bad.

give scar vet a Piranha blade, now he's pretty useless
 
Okey. I came back to think how could i improve my army. I made 2 list that have bit differences

List #1
470 SMP : BSB War Banner, Lore of life, Focus of mystery, Focused Rumination , Becalming Cogitation, CUPPED hands

105 ScarVet Ench Shield, HW, Light Armor
93 ScarVet Shield, HW, Light Armor
380 SC on Ancient Stegadon, Warspear

305 SW (25), FCG
330 SW (25), FCG, Spear
70 Skink S.
55 Sinks

72 CS
355 TG, FCG

80 SHP /w Extra Handler
80 SHP /w Extra Handler

With Idea that i have 3 Solid Block (SW, TG, SW) With Scar Vet in both SW team to kill enemy faster.


OR

List #2
455 SMP - , Earthing Rod, BSB /w War Banner, Focus of mystery, The Focused Rumination,The Becalming Cogitation LORE of LIFE, Dragonbane Gem.

130 ScarVet, Sword Of Hornet, Enchanted Shield, Light Armor
390 SP, Ancient Stegadon, LvL2

360 SW 30 FCG
330 SW 25 Spear FCG
70 SS

72 CS
72 CS
355 TG, FCG

80 SHP /W Xtrahandler
80 SHP /W Xtrahandler

Or do you have better suggestions :) ? Maybe List 2 With replacing Skink priest to Skink Chief (Then i would have points for cupped hands instead of Earthning rod or taking banner for TG.)
 
Here it goes i returned to fix my armylist. After i had new experience againts dwarf's and beastmen...

My new list ist much more balanced and dropping stegadon with character divides my points better

so here is my new 2400 final list

SMP Life, Cupped hands, Dragonbanegem, BSB, Focused rumination, Focus of mystery, Becalming Cogitation

Scar Vet GW Armor of destiny, GW
Scar Vet Scimitar of the sun resemplant, Light armor, Shield
SW 29 HW FCG
SW 29 Spear FCG
16 Skink 2 Krox Standard

TG 20 FCG
CS 7
CS 7

Sally 4 Handler
Sally 4 Handler
 
Thanks for noticing Juhaaha. It seems i have made error. Fixed now

Need still feedback what people think about my list. I have replaced stegadon with Skrox team to be as Hammer for my 2x SW and TG team. I was considering should i replace Skink Chief with small 10 skink Skirmisher or basic skink team. Skink chief is now strenghtening a Skrox team to make team more effective in melee. Maybe removing him and taking another harrasser?

Im not sure is 2x 6 Chameleont skink good enough harrasser's and im not sure are they enough to deal with cannon. Maybe by reducing skink chief i can add 1 CS for each team and take 50 pts Skink team as extra harrasser

Any toughts?

Slann seems powerful enough to deal with anything. If i would have more points i would have taken razordon banner but it seems im running short with points and you cant get everything :) :bored:
 
No cupped hands on Slan ?
And he is inside Temple Guard ?
Consider on some games you may lose half or all Temple Guard my miscast templates.
Feedback scrol ... ok so what ? 50 points ?
for ?
For use the scroll , must your oponet cast succesfuly the spell , means that the spell ll have a bad effect on your army, seckodary that spell need NOT cast irresistable (on that case you cant use the scroll) , and ofc to kill the enemy mage.The mages with 3 wounds most of times have a ward save 4+ or a regeneration 4+(Vampires), i mean is pretty hard to use the scroll with good % for you.Ok you can target some 2 level mages with 2 wounds , on that case even on 3 dices you hope you ll bring 1 5+.But that worth 65 points items on slan and the absence of cupped hands ? I think No.
Add cupped hands
remove the skink and 1 unit saurus or the mixed unit, add an engine (no need say again how useful is, you ll have slan lore and 3 good spells with +3 casting from lore of heavens , plus engine abilities)
and finaly i wana see more diverters to protect your Temple Guard.
Means more skinks , add a couple cohorts (50 point each) and some more skirmisers
Slan's disciplines are perfect so and the other units.Just find some points.
Take care !
 
Hi there

As you suggest taking cupped hands over feebackscroll + bane head. So replacing them should be easy cause they cost rawly same amount. But i have been told that feeback+bane head combo is good killing 100-300 points with one turn from enemy. Sure you are right it has bad % change to succeed for lord mage with ward save, but i tought it is ment to be used on avarage wizard with no ward saves. Sure cupped hands could be better in normal rules but i tought ETC rules have nerfed cupped hands to give u only PD

Lore of life gives you change to reroll misscast so its bit more unlikely to blow TG's up

As you suggest taking EOTG i disagree. Ancient stegadon with priest takes about 350-400 points and is VERY vurnerable for missile /cannon/mortar/ballista /magic fire. Played againts dwarf and empire lately and my stegadon died on first turn. Free points for enemy.

In my honest opinion it is better to divide stegadons points by taking Skrox team's (they shoot and scoop and can fill almost same job as stegadon)

And as with disicplines of slann discard's enemy wizards roll for 6 so they cant roll irresistable force with lvl 4 mage If the 6's get discarded = Means enemy rolls lot dices and i can feedback em
 
You are wrong about engine
ok you was unlucky , but i have face also here on greek tournaments 2-3 empire players and dwarf and my stegadon has die from combat than shooting ...
As note , we play hils higher than large targets , so u can hide him behind an imposible terain or a hill.
so generaly vs cannons you deal a problem but vs mortars and catapelts , ok you dont need hide him.
The hole randomizes 5+ skink/6+ priest /1-4 engine , you have ward save by discipline and he need do and 5 wounds , plus you can add on priest dragon bane gem for 2+ vs fire (almost all dwarfs have burning their catapelt.) the most important tho is , You DONT LOSE points when either stegadon or priest dies , for lose 400-430 points need die both , so he kills the beast hide the priest and so on.
The risk worth.
On local tournaments i run usaly 2 stegadons , 1 engine / 1 ancient or special choice ,plus mixed unit (i call them Wolfs , cuse on old rule 7th edition they cant turn ,like wolfs :P)
I dont use at all saurus or temple gaurd.
Max skirmiser skinks
Max cohorts (1 is mixed with 2-4 kroxies)
2 tega
2 units teradons
3 salies
2 units chameleons


so far works.

Ok try with your list but sometime give some change to tega to prove their worth on an enviroment full of infantries.


With cupped hands you cant have on ETC any dispel scrol , that is the only restriction with that item.
but as i see with out cupped hands again you dont have any dispell scrol.So you are ok to add it.
Ofc try and feedback, i have try all lists and units our book has.Thats why i say u feedback is a bit risky, sometimes doesnt worth his points.
Cupped hands on other hand , is nice feeling to roll 6 dices with no fear :P
Ofc the lore of life helps you , i play most of times Fire to be agressive with fireballs and cage.using life maybe you dont need cupped hands (ofc your oponet may he try dispell the throne of veins)
Above all only thow games you ll decide what worth or not on ur list, depending always by your personal game style!!!
Good luck to ur matces !
Take care !
 
Yey

Thank for your post. I think we try to get different approach how we play but it dosent matter! =) Your list sounds fine and maybe i will try some day that. But atm i will stick in my own.. ofc with few modification

Tomorrow im going to play againts High Elves! I shall find out and make pictured battle report from this battle :)

2400 pts! . Im not sure do we play ETC or not. Even thou i think my latest list will do . Deleted feedback+banehead and added cupped hands. Deleted Skink Chief too. *EDITED* now so the lastest list u see is the latest list. If this goes well againts HE. I think my army is finished and i will go hunt some tournaments to play
 
I tought should i form new topic for this. I think i have made "THE PERFECT" LM list. Atleast well balanced

Here is my armylist. I think it is the best armylist you can get :)

SMP BSB Life, Focused rumination, Focus mystery, Becalming Cogitation, Cupped hands, Dragonbanegem, Banhead (misscast kill enemy wizard)

Scar Vet GW, Cold one, Shield, Gambler armor, Dawnstone, (1 + armorsave with S 7. nice)
Scar Vet Sword of strife (+ 2 attack), LA, Shield Dragonhelm. (Means he got 6 Attack and 2+ armorsave)

SW 29 HW FCG
SW 29 Spear FCG
10 SS
10 SS
10 SS

7 CS
7 CS
20 TG FCG, Flaming Banner

1xSHP + Extra Snack
1xSHP + Extra snack

So TG's should be powerful with flaming attacks , haldbergs, stubborn, BSB´ Im thou concidering to give up 4 TG so i can get 1 shaman with Dispell scroll (recude some Skirmisher skink too)
Both SW teams should hold againts enemy with FCG and scar veteran in other and other will be supported by other. Other Scar vet is designed to kill harder foes and other is to kill lesser enemys with 6 attack

I have 31 skink skirmishers that should give hell to enemy with chameleont skink harrassing sides. Also 2x Salamanders should burn those lesser creatures to the ground. So i should get 62 poisoned shots from SS, 14 from CS and 2x flaming template to enemy almost every turn :meh:

Main tactic is to sit back with 2x SW and TG and harass and shoot enemy to pieces while they move forward. IF i face gunline i ofc advance and kill WM's with CS


Ideas ? Complains? Hints? Disagree? Agree? Comments?
 
I do have a note/warning:

If you sit back with your infantry blocks and let your 'light troops' harass your opponent. You essentially create a 2-wave approach. First: the skinks/salamanders/stuff fire some darts, run&hide/run&die/die.
Then, your opponent approaches your infantry wall and engages. You are now without support* and in combat. Your opponent has the initiative in pretty much the entire battle.
I find that with lizardmen, you should not have a defensive mindset. Ranged weapons from our opponents easily outrange our blowpipes and javelins. Also, when playing defensively: you get the 2-wave problem. Where your opponent uses the full force of his army against the first wave, and then has enough left to face your 2nd wave.

Personally (read: with my playing style), I like the agressive approach. You fight on your terms, and you dictate the battle. Your support units are more active in the battle, and truly supporting your blocks.

Well, that's pretty much what I wanted to say. Don't take this for granted though, we all have our own playing styles/thoughts on the game. And my thoughts could easily FAIL in your style/plans.

The Hunted

*: Yes, I am fully aware that I generalize a lot. But that's what keeps this post from hitting 5 pages.
 
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