7th Ed. 2250 - New to Lizardmen

[Jive Professor]

Hey guys, Jive here. I am a long-time Empire and Dwarf player, and while I have coveted the Dinosaurs for years, I could never find the time to fit them in. New-found time AND the release of the amazing plastic Stegadon (always my favorite anyway) have prompted me to jump into the Lustrian jungles.

This list is designed to be my go-to list, whether friendly or tournament. The guys I play with aren't WAACked out, nor are they fluff-bunnies. My Empire have been on a really long winning streak, and I want to continue this with my LM. I don't mind having hard-as-nails lists, but I don't want to be Mayor McCheese - if you guys think something reeks of swiss, tell me.

Anyway, enough jibba jabba. The List:

Lord -

Slann - 520
- BSB, War Banner
- Focused Rumination, Unfathomable Presence, Soul of Stone
- Cupped Hands of the Old Ones

Heroes -

Skink Priest - 440
- Engine of the Gods, Level 2
- 2 Dispell Scrolls

Skink Priest - 90
- Rod of the Storm

Skink Chief - 120
- Terradon
- Staff of the Lost Son

Core -

20 Saurus Warriors - 270
- Full Command, Spears

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

Special -

3 Terradon Riders - 90

16 Temple Guard - 351
- Full Command, Sun Standard of Chotec
Rare -

Ancient Stegadon - 275

Models: 64
Total - 2246

PD: 10 w/1 Bound Item
DD: 7 w/ 2 Scrolls


***Ninja Edit*** Woops, Slann was a bit too low on the pts cost there! Dropped the Sword of Battle to even it out.

Basic Strategy is that the EotG forms the center with the Slann/TG on its left and the Saurus Warriors on its right, with the Ancient Stegadon just past the Saurus and within 12" of the EotG. A unit of Skirmisher skinks takes each flank, while the Terradon Riders lead by the Chief and the Skink Priest on foot go wherever necessary.

I want a slow, methodical advance from the army. EotG blankets itself, the other Steggie, the Saurus block, and the TG with the 5+ ward save. Terradon riders play gunship and drop rocks/unleash poison on squishy backfield targets or obnoxious fast cav. The Skink Priest keeps generally out of range of the enemy, staying within 12" of the EotG and casting Uranon's Thunderbolt on distant enemies, while occasionally throwing his one dice on a magic missile attempt for kicks. Hopefully by impact turn the Slann and EotG Priest will have softened the enemy up enough for the kill from Steggie/Saurus charges.

Any and all comments, general LM tips, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

 

[Gannon]

Hey.
I'll just give you some of my thoughts.
Why give the slann terror? A U3 terror causer won't break any units. Only make units run if they fail their terror test. But why would u want unit running away from your anvil unit?

I'ld prefer the full lore over the terror.


Speaking of anvil units. I see only 1 serious hammer unit. Which would be the ancient. Don't know how you feel with this but I always love to have a second hammer unit. In case the other can't do his job or is destroyed before it has the chance.

What is the use of the lvl1 priest with rod of storms ? He gives 1 DD and has a one use only item.
I'ld remove him and give the 2 DS that are on the engine to the slann, remove the soul of stone.

And give War Drums and Diadem of power to the engine.
Being able to march 12" with a monster while your saurus are in battle and use Burning aligment on the right unit can seriously be a game winning move. the Diadem is for the extra dispell dice if you need those. Heaven lore is not so great anyways.

The chief with terradons is a gamble. You give them some close combat power, but they are still weak. As they can be shot or magicked to death very easily. He's really expensive for what he can do. A simple Scar-vet on cold one is around 130-140 points and much more realiable and much more a killing machine.

Other than that the list looks solid. Your strategy asswell.
Since you started with lizardmen I'ld advice you to play the list you made now. Then see what could be changed or what you missed. Then you can still check your possiblities and change whatever is needed to be changed.

Good luck.

 

[Jive Professor]

Thanks for replying Gannon!

Hey.
I'll just give you some of my thoughts.
Why give the slann terror? A U3 terror causer won't break any units. Only make units run if they fail their terror test. But why would u want unit running away from your anvil unit?

I'ld prefer the full lore over the terror.

Oh, I guess that must have been a typo, I meant to give him the MR 3 ability, not terror. Would the MR or the full lore be better?

Speaking of anvil units. I see only 1 serious hammer unit. Which would be the ancient. Don't know how you feel with this but I always love to have a second hammer unit. In case the other can't do his job or is destroyed before it has the chance.

I hoped that my magic would soften them up enough so that the Saurus could mop up. I would love another Steg in the list, but I don't know where to pull the points from. I feel like if I drop my skink/terradon support then I'm going to be too slow and have trouble with enemies in terrain, but I hate to drop the Saurus unit and have my TG be the only real solid static res I have in the army.

What is the use of the lvl1 priest with rod of storms ? He gives 1 DD and has a one use only item.
I'ld remove him and give the 2 DS that are on the engine to the slann, remove the soul of stone.

At power 5, he will force my opponents to chuck two dice to be confidant it will be gone. It is the one spell I really like from Heavens, and my opponents generally aren't the kind of guys that toss 1 die against a 5 and hope for success. Having the little guy burn a dice or two consistently each turn, and occasionally getting the spell through to womp on heavy cav and the like and ignore armor saves. I intended to start every magic phase with him, forcing the enemy to either burn defenses on him or just let it go through and wait for the Slann to do its thing.

And give War Drums and Diadem of power to the engine.
Being able to march 12" with a monster while your saurus are in battle and use Burning aligment on the right unit can seriously be a game winning move. the Diadem is for the extra dispell dice if you need those. Heaven lore is not so great anyways.

I hadn't considered that aspect of the War Drums. I always figured they were more for keeping your EotG from getting march-blocked, but I figured I had enough to deal with those fast cav/flyer threats. I hadn't even considered having the EotG go for broke and run into the enemy backfield. Hrm, another possibility...

The chief with terradons is a gamble. You give them some close combat power, but they are still weak. As they can be shot or magicked to death very easily. He's really expensive for what he can do. A simple Scar-vet on cold one is around 130-140 points and much more realiable and much more a killing machine.

I knew going into it the chief was kind of a gamble. I gave him the staff in the hopes that, even if the other terradons got blown away, he could still wipe out enemy war machine crews on his own. I will try to add a Scar Vet for the Saurus block.

Quick aside: Can Terradons fly over a unit, drop rocks on it, and then shoot at it or another target as well?

Other than that the list looks solid. Your strategy asswell.
Since you started with lizardmen I'ld advice you to play the list you made now. Then see what could be changed or what you missed. Then you can still check your possiblities and change whatever is needed to be changed.

Good luck.

I will have the opportunity to play some HE sometime soon. I already am a bit worried about Sword Masters. Ugh.

I will use your advice and try to come up with another version of the list when I have some downtime at work this afternoon and post up a revision incorporating your advice.

 

[Barotok]

Can Terradons fly over a unit, drop rocks on it, and then shoot at it or another target as well?

The rocks drop in the movement phase so, yes. As far as I can remember there are no restrictive rules for this case, you my drop rocks and shoot at who you like.

 

[snowywlf]

And give War Drums and Diadem of power to the engine.
Being able to march 12" with a monster while your saurus are in battle and use Burning aligment on the right unit can seriously be a game winning move. the Diadem is for the extra dispell dice if you need those. Heaven lore is not so great anyways.

Unfortunately, the War Drums are 30 points and the Diadem of Power is 25 points. The Skink Priest can only manage 50 points of magic items, so they cant use both at the same time.

And you couldnt put both Diadem of Power and the Rod of the Storm on the second priest, because they are both Arcane items.

I'd recommend the Diadem of Power on the Engine of the Gods so you can utilize the 2 Power Dice -> 2 Dispel Dice instead of only having 1 Power Dice to convert.

I can definitely see the appeal of the War Drums, but I think the Diadem of Power is going to serve you better if you are battling a magic army. Now, if you are fighting a magic light army, then the War Drums would be an excellent item for your Engine of the Gods.

Just a thought... if you were wanting to have a free dispel dice attracter (basically how you were using the Rod of the Storm) you could take the Blood Statuette of Spite on your Engine of the Gods. With no range or line of site, this could be a really handy mage killer and might suck up some dispel dice as you planned. Plus, at 25pts each you can do both Diadem of Power and Blood Statuette of Spite. They are different item types as well, Enchanted and Arcane items. This would also allow you to exchange your stray Skink Priest for some other models or upgrades.


You also asked if you should take the 3MR or the full Lore ability. Personally, I'd go with the full Lore. Lets be honest... each Lore has 1 *maybe* 2 spells that are must haves for a really solid magic phase. Everything else is just helpful filler. You're naturally getting 4/6 spells, meaning you still have a 33% chance of not getting the spell you really need to be effective as a major caster. Plus, with the Diadem of Power you should have enough dispel dice to get the job done in almost any situation. If you do decide to keep your little stray Skink Priest, I'd load him up as a scroll caddy so you have some guaranteed (nearly) dispels if you are nervous about it.

 

[Jive Professor]

A lot of good tips and good info guys. Yeah, the War Drums being 30 is probably why I glossed them over in the first place.

Good catch snowylf on the two Arcane items jazz, I am so used to only using scroll caddies I totally forgot.

I also realized that even though I didn't charge myself about 20 points for the Cupped Hands, I DID charge myself 50 points for my first slann ability. Gah! Alright, now that it is all fixed up, I took another whack at it. Here is the list revision I made this afternoon:

Lord -

Slann - 475
- BSB, Warbanner
- Focused Rumination, Soul of Stone, Focus of Mystery, Rod of the Storm, Dispell Scroll

Heroes -

Skink Priest - 440
- Engine of the Gods
- Level 2, Dispell Scroll, Diadem of Power

Core -

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

20 Saurus Warriors - 258
- Musician, Standard, Spears

Special -

3 Terradons - 90

16 Temple Guard - 331
- Full Command
- Sun Standard of Chotec

Stegadon - 235 (I like calling this guy a Regadon, for regular, but that's just me lol)

Rare -

Ancient Stegadon 275

Total: 2244
Models: 63 (Wow! As an Empire player, that seems so low)

PD: 9 w/ 1 Bound Item
DD: 6 DD w/ 2 Scrolls, Diadem

Now I could make both Skirmisher units into ranked Skink units and upgrade the Regadon to an Ancient, and it wouldn't change the points value, but I feel like they are exactly what they need to be, and a poisoned bolt thrower is nothing to be upset about.

Is this a stronger list? Weaker list? I feel a lot more confident about this one, though I am tucking away the Chief on Terradon idea for a potential Southlands list down the road.

 

[snowywlf]

I like the list. You basically have two anvils, primary being Temple Guard/Slann and secondary being the Warrior block. Your hammers are obviously the steggies (and quite the hammers they are).

You asked about changing your skinks from Skirmishers to ranked in order to get another Ancient Stegadon. Well, I think it depends on the role you really want your skinks in. As they currently stand, I see them as being screens, and for that I'd recommend Skirmishers. You have a lot more flexibility getting them in the way of the enemy and positioning them to flee without running over your own troops. The benefit to the ranked skinks is that you can use them more effectively as flankers (since skirmishers arent able to ignore the enemy's rank bonus for Combat Resolution). Ultimately this shouldnt be any issue for you, as your Stegadons should be performing the flank hits. I'd leave them as they are, but remember, if you can string your skirmishing skinks out to block your stegadon with the blowpipes from charges and get within range, you are firing from a Large Target (so you can see over the skinks) and do a very healthy 4D6 Poisoned Shots. If you manage to squeeze into an 8" range, you can also get 3 more javelin attacks from the crew (remember 2 of them are used to fire the blow pipes). And of course, anyone charging your skirmishers should be receiving a Stand and Shoot reaction for 20 poisoned shots, right?

Something to think about, because while the Stegadon is great in close combat, there is also a lot to be said about a volley from the Giant Blowpipes followed by a Stand and Shoot from your skirmishing skinks, and then (if the Stegadon gets charged in an overrun) a second volley from the Giant Blowpipes in a Stand and Shoot. That's 8D6 + 20 Poison Attacks before your enemy even touches the Stegadon (toss in the crew's javelins as well if range permits).


Also, you dropped the Cupped Hands from your Slann? Personally, I'd say this is almost a requirement for a magic heavy Slann. Especially since you are intending to use magic as your primary softener. I know you explained why you like the Rod of the Storm but... I really think your Slann can have something better. It's a one use damage spell that is nice but still has the potential to be crap (roll a 1 and that's a big waste) vs. not only saving your Slann's life/casting ability/magic phase/etc. but also inflicting it on an enemy wizard. Saving your Slann would be enough (um, he's worth 475 pts in your list) but having the bonus of transfering it to an enemy wizard is pretty nice bonus. Compare the potential points you could get with 1 cast of Uranon's Thunder Bolt to the potential points you can save (Slann as 475) plus inflict on an enemy wizard. Remember the Slann has line of sight as a Large Target when with the Temple Guard... meaning that miscast result can go pretty much wherever you like.

And I think this is a very solid list. You'll have to get back to us on how it performs, but I think it really has a lot going for it.

 

[Jive Professor]

Dropping the Cupped Hands was a really tough decision, but it was that or Soul of Stone. I figured Cupped Hands, while cool, is a one shot Miscast deflect. Soul of Stone helps with every miscast. I would Prefer to have both, but them's the breaks.

Perhaps I should drop the Sun Standard and use the points to give the Slann the Cupped Hands?

As far as the Skirmishers to ranked goes, I really feel like the list is better served with the Skirmishers in and the Regadon, I already have enough ranked units as far as I can tell.

 

[teknistmajjan]

Hey there.

The list you got is pretty darn strong, i myself do not play without composition restrictions so a 3 steg army will never be a option for me but thats not the point here

the cupped hands is 10 times better then the soul of stone imo, It does not only gives you a free misscast but i also helps you against other magic heavy armies or even against magic defense.

Get the cupped and youll be fine

I would also drop the sun standard and the "Regadon" for 2 saurus scar veterans, one with cold one, light armour, burning blade of chotec, enchanted shield, and the other with a great weapon and charm of the jaguar.

2 ancient stegs is more then enough, and the flying scar vet can lock up units, hit chariots etc as the other scar is is a nice addition to spear warriors.

 

[Gannon]

I aggree with teknistmajjan about the scar-vets.
If you want the enemy to drop 2 DD as a start, the jag charm is a great option. Who would want a scar-vet flying into his machine crew or in some weaker unit? Nobody so they trow dice at it.
The other scar-vet on cold-one gives fear to the unit so they won't be autobroken, as long as the scar-vet is alive!

As you are a former empire player i'm sure you know the weakness and strenght of a 3-steg army.

Lots of terror to make empire run. And lots of S6 attacks can destroy some units.
But as they are 3 large targets, they are easy to be destroyed by shooting, either handgunners or cannons can really put some early wounds on those stegs. The 5+ ward save is nice versus lots of concentrated fire but when the steg is hit by a cannon and you need to roll that 5... it doesn't happen too often and steg could be dead.

greets

 

[Jive Professor]

Oh believe me, putting 400+ points in a single figure blows my mind. I tend to weigh unit costs in cannons. I love the Steg model, but every time I build an EotG I think "Man, I could get four cannons for that."

I do know a good friend of mine have his Empire hitting the board against me every time I play him, as he is a Sigmar purist (unlike me, I am fickle).

I may just switch Soul of Stone for the Cupped Hands, but I don't now how I feel about dropping the Sun Standard the more I think about it. That extra -1 makes any small arms, i.e. handgunners, essentially null versus the big block. I know the Slann will already be drawing cannon fire, why even give the other shots the chance?

Perhaps I could drop the Regadon, add in a Scar Vet with the Jaguar Charm and Burning Blade, and then... hrm, I'm not really sure. Any thoughts on what to do with the remaining 100 points?

 

[teknistmajjan]

First.

It is only human and orcs that can get away with cheap characters, if you want to play lizardmen get used to it.

Second, your templ guards have TO 4 and a 3+ save vs shooting so they should be fine as they are, along with some skinks to screen away if its really needed.

And i was not pointing out ONE scar vet with blade of chotec and the charm, there was two different setups.


Scar-vet: Blade of chotec, light armour, enchanted shield, cold one (Scar vet 1)

Scar-vet: Charm of the jaguar, Great weapon (Scar vet 2)


Now both of these would be perfect in your list.

 

[Jive Professor]

True, I always forget TG have Light Armor. Makes them even more versatile, as fighting with HW+Shield would be quite amazing versus scads of garbage troops like VC, with two S4 attacks and T4 with a 2+ save.

I am hesitant to put a Cold One SV in my Spear block. I add Fear, but also Stupidity to the unit, and it is my only real unit that can take any sort of war of attrition - ensuring that it is in position is paramount. I don't think it's worth the risk, though putting a foot SV in the unit is definitely an option.

 

[teknistmajjan]

Well we all play a different style when it comes to warhammer.

I try to minimize the randomness as much as possible often (exept my cav list) but to have to roll a stupidity test against 8 or 9 with 3 dices isnt so harsch compared to being autobroken from combat.

 

[Jive Professor]

Lord -

Slann - 470
- BSB, Warbanner
- Focused Rumination, Focus of Mystery, Rod of the Storm, Dispell Scroll, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones

Heroes -

Saurus Scar Vet - 160 (Goes with Saurus)
- Light Armor, Cold One
- Maiming Shield, Sword of Battle

Skink Chief - 105
- Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Blowpipe
- Cloak of Feathers

Skink Priest - 440
- Engine of the Gods
- Level 2, Dispell Scroll, Diadem of Power

Core -

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

10 Skink Skirmishers - 70

18 Saurus Warriors - 234
- Musician, Standard, Spears

Special -

3 Terradons - 90

16 Temple Guard - 331
- Full Command
- Sun Standard of Chotec

Rare -

Ancient Stegadon 275

Total: 2245
Models: 62

PD: 9 w/ 1 Bound Item
DD: 6 DD w/ 2 Scrolls, Diadem

This is the alternative list which incorporates a few more heroes in lieu of the Regadon. With the prevailance of Undead in my area, having them immune to fear is worth it. Plus, with 6 S5 attacks in addition to the already ridiculous amount the Saurus block puts out on its own, they should be excellent lawnmowers. Even heavier inf/cav will get a run for their money.

The Skink chief is the cheaper and more reliable version of the Scar Vet with the Jaguar Charm. Though because of his Lower strength, he is relegated primarily to fighting lone wizards and War Machine Crews. I intend to have him on one flank and the Terradons on the other, and have them both just book it full out.

Also Soul of Stone got dropped in favor of the Cupped Hands.