8th Ed. 2000pt Army to be used vs Skaven

[Sudaj]

Hey guys, New member here.

I am gearing up for a test game vs a friend whom happens to use Skaven.
My plan for the last game didn't go so well... Irresistible force killed off my whole temple guard regiment... but that's a story for another time. This time around I am hoping to go for an "Outflank with magic, and pummel the center line" kind of a mix.

Army list is as follows:

Skink Priests (3)
- All lvl. 2, all Lore of Heavens.

1 Skink Chief (Hand weapon, Enchanted shield, light armor).

2 Saurus Warrior Regiments (16 warriors each. Champions, Standard Bearers and Musicians).

2 Units of Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields (12 Skinks each, Champions).

2 Units of Skink Skirmishers with Blowpipes (14 Skinks each, Champions).

1 Skink Cohort (36 Skinks, 3 Kroxigors as well as a champion, standard bearer, and musician).

1 Stegadon with Sharpened horns and Unstoppable Stampede.

2 Salamander Hunting Packs (Each with an extra handler).


So, Please be brutally honest... Do I stand a chance against his cannons, hell-pit abominations, etc?
I am VERY out of practice, and while I have been trying to read up, and get re-familiarized... I was thouroughly beaten on our last practice game.
Changes, suggestions or criticisms are all welcomed!

Edit: I should also note, we only play 8th edition, not AOS.

 

[skink chief]

Hey there.
I have to say for me personally I don't dig the list at all .

Tetto'Eko will do more for you then 3 lvl 2 heavens. I would take him and a scrollcaddie lvl 1 be it beasts or heavens.

Skink chief, I would go for scar vet.

Take 1 saurus block instead of 2 small units of them. A block of 30 will save you 30pts from musician,sb ans champ.

3 skirmisher units should be enough maybe even 2 in 2000pts list. But i would recomend 3 without the champions since they well probably do nothing for you. Thats 80+40 pts spared right there for 1 less unit and 4 less champs.

Skink cohort lose the champ.

As for the steggie. If you are worried about cannons don't bring him or 1. See that you get hills or walls to hide behind 2. Bring chameleons to hopefully distract the cannons.

I wouldn't recommend using the steggy for the hell pit btw.

In general skaven are a hard army to deal with especially a hell pit in 2000pts list. You got 2 choices in my opinion 1. Distract it with your skirmishers and sacrifice them if need be to get him away from your units. 2. Get a flaming banner on something to deal with it. Normally there is a third option wich is magic but skinks and their limited magic choices won't be able to do much against it.

Cheers

 

[Sudaj]

Thanks for the advice! Honestly I don't have a Tetto'Eko, or any Chameleon Skinks... My friend would probably let me play with Proxys, but that's no fun for me. I have a Grand total of about 3500pts in units, but honestly there was no plan or method in buying them back when I was playing the first time as a 15 year old, just whatever I could get my hands on.

 

[Sudaj]

So... I really need to get some more units... I am looking around online, and Chameleon Skinks do seem like a great addition to my army. Also more Kroxigors (I currently only have 2 oop Krox, 3rd one in list is just a proxy), and more Salamanders (also only 2, using oop Skink Shortbowman as proxy for the extra handlers).

 

[skink chief]

For tetto I completely understand. But for chameleon skinks I personally always use skinks since I dislike the chameleon mini's...

 

[Sudaj]

Yeah... Still I appreciate the advice.

 

[airjamy]

Any army can beat any other army, i say that as a part time TK player so just know that i mean it. XD Some armies are more consistent then others, but in principle i take it that every game is winnable with sound tactics and some luck of the dice.

Not a fan of the list though, why i the Old Ones blessed names would you take 3 Heavens priests in lieu of a Slann? Contemplations combined with the Channeling combo is really good against the Skaven as you will need a lot of magical defense against the Skaven with their Dreaded 13th spell, i personally prefer Contemplations above a scroll, especially as taking a scroll stops you taking the Channeling combo. Ill go into the list on a unit by unit basis.

Skink Priests (3)
- All lvl. 2, all Lore of Heavens. Replace it with a Slann, as i said. You are not paying a lot extra, but you get the plus 4 instead of the plus 2 on dispell and casting, which is huge. Also access to masteries is extremely necessary in 2K games.

1 Skink Chief (Hand weapon, Enchanted shield, light armor). What exactly will this guy be doing? He is very expensive for doing really nothing, he is not tanky, he does little damage when compared to real CC monster (scarvet with GW has 4 S7 attacks with predatory fighter) while being worth all in all 40 points? Skink chiefs are Terradon Warmachine hunters, LD givers in full skink lists or Stegadon riders, on foot, they are almost always awfull, does not matter hwo you build them.

2 Saurus Warrior Regiments (16 warriors each. Champions, Standard Bearers and Musicians). To small, i think Saurus units should not be considered under 20 models due to Steadfast. Also cut the champion, champions protect characters, and you have way to many champions in your list to be doing that. Consider swapping the champs for additional models, in the case of sauri, you pay 1 point more for an additional attack and wound and a bigger chance on ranks and being steadfast,, sounds like a deal, no?

2 Units of Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields (12 Skinks each, Champions). Cut the champions, they are way to expensive for what they bring. One BS, for what is it, 7 or 10 points (i do not even know as i never use them)?! What do you want, an additional attack, wound, model, shot, or one extra BS?

2 Units of Skink Skirmishers with Blowpipes (14 Skinks each, Champions). Put your skirmisher units in teams of 13 or 10. 10 is for maximal manouverability, 13 is to only have to roll panic tests in the first volley when you have 4 casualties in a phase. Javelin Shield combo is more popular around here as you often cannot multishoot, but as you do have a lot of skinks, some variety van be placed in your weapon combo's.

1 Skink Cohort (36 Skinks, 3 Kroxigors as well as a champion, standard bearer, and musician). Cut the champion, once again. You can really save around maybe a 100 points if you cut all the champs in your list, think about what you can do with all the points . For the rest, solid unit.

1 Stegadon with Sharpened horns and Unstoppable Stampede. Cut Unstoppable Stampede, it is not worth it. 10 points for one attack if you get the charge? Sharpened Horns really puts you towards killing multi wound models, it is viable yet not a mandatory upgrade IMHO. It will work well against Skaven, Hellpits are hard to control for the Skaven player and thus sortoff more easily charged then other faster monsters such as Demigryphs and Dragons. Use this guy as the Hellpit killer, he will probebly kill it on the charge if he survives the cannon barrage (try to put him outside LOS of cannons if your opponent has them. Also consider taking 2 if this is your goal, one Steggie can get shot, but if you deploy 2 together, at least one will almost always reach the other side of the field, and then you can charge the Hellpit. With monsters in general in WHFB, taking one is a bad idea as one will be shot dead by cannons, with more of them you can create target saturation for the enemy cannons, and thus at least get a few to where they need to be. With monsters, go big or go home.
2 Salamander Hunting Packs (Each with an extra handler). Good choice. Sallies like snacks

With the points you save out i think you could ad simply more models, and maybe you can cut a block of Sauri for a block of TG around your slann. Try to make it as big as possible, at least 20 men, as they will be shot at, a lot. Make your Slann a BSB, give him Contemplations and the Channeling combo with the lore of Light to buff your Sauri. Then you have a relatively cheap Slann and a good battle line to anchor everything around. Take out priority targets with your Skinks, Sallies and Stegadons. Playing against Skaven is about picking the right targets, killing units of slaves does nothing in the bigger scale of things, those blocks are around 40 to 80 pts each.. If you can get at the unit with the General/BSB, do so at almost any cost. Most Skaven player defend this unit very well, so it will be very hard to do. The normal way to win from Skaven players is to nog get bogged down in the Slaves and to kill their vital units, be it Hellpits, big units of Stormvermin, units with Screaming Bells or Plague Furnaces or their Cannons. Taking Warmachine hunters is really good, as they often have cannons, and we do not like those.

Well, that got a bit longer then i thought, but i hope it helped, do let us know how it went. The tactica section has a great section on the Skaven and our tactics in general, be sure to read that if you run into any trouble, it works great. Also, welcome to the Jungle.

 

[Sudaj]

Thanks airjamy!
Honestly I was avoiding the Slann for this round because during my last game I used one... and things went bad real fast. Irresistible force caused him to explode, killing 9 of his 12 Temple guards (I only have 12 models of TG, so unless I use Saurus spear-men as a proxy, no way I can get 20 TG on the field). But I guess I could try again. Also, having 3 Skink Priests moving about the field gives me the option for more spells, from more locations. Yes, each priest is MUCH weaker than the Slann... but it offers me a chance to keep casting spells if he focuses his cannons on one or two of my wizards.

The Skink Chief was probably going to be joined up with either the Cohort & Krox, or one of the Javelin and Shield units, since they are going to end up in melee vs his Slaves for sure, in true Skaven form he charges like a lunatic with the expendable slaves, and I wanted to offer a little more survivability to one of my units... but you are right, a Scar-Veteran would probably be better.

I think I will block up my Saurus as well, go for a rank of 30, rather than the two ranks of 16... just hope that doesn't become too much of a target for his grey-seer... Skaven magic is nasty.

I will look into cutting champions out of all non Saurus units. Since Cold-Blooded makes leadership less of a concern anyway.
I'm liking the thought of the Stegadon, but I'm worries that he will just end up cannon fodder... since we are playing on a flat map with little to no terrain...
But that's just a risk I will have to take.

Again, thanks for the input, always glad to hear from more seasoned players!

 

[n810]

More large Saurus units, less regular skinks, more chameleons or terradons, or ripperdactayls.

 

[Sudaj]

I have no Chameleons, of Flyers... *Sheds a single tear*

 

[n810]

Use skinks to "count as" chameleons.

(these are for taking out or distracting the cannons)

 

[Sudaj]

Proxys. Got it. I can do that I suppose

 

[twistedmagpie]

To be honest I think that list you have doesn't stand much chance. I'm both a Skaven and Lizardmen player and I will be honest they are a darned good army. As with anyone who comes up against Skaven, you're only chance is if your opponent doesn't roll well.

However you can cause him as much trouble as possible and try to make the most out of any mediocre/ bad rolls he makes....

I agree with most of what Airjam said above, you need a Slann, if not he will out roll every single spell you cast with his +4 vs your own +2. His Grey Seer will destroy you otherwise. With a Slann you also have access to the Lore of Fire which you need!!!! You shouldn't miscast either if you keep you dice numbers low.

You need to add those Saurus together, otherwise a good Dreaded Thirteenth Roll will give him another unit of 16 Clanrats + full command, spears and shields!!!! Not a good idea.

If you have any Saurus heroes then get them in there too, give them the Egg of Quango and what the first unit they hit disintegrate in front of you.

Salamanders are ace and will be great flank protectors, they will also provide a great distraction for his Abom. Don't fire at him though as they will do far more to his units.

As for tactics, sit back and let your magic demolish as many rats as you can before they get to you. send your skinks round to handle his cannon (The Warp Lightening Cannon is man of the match in 8/10 Skaven games; they are devastating and you need to shut it down quickly). Magic his Abom with fire or cry, I've seen them take out entire armies on their own.

 

[Sudaj]

Alright. I definitely see a trend in the responses (Thanks to twistedmagpie for adding in).
A slann (Depending on how things go), should be added.
Bigger blocks of Saurus, less skirmishers, but Add Chameleons.
Keep the Salamanders.

Trouble I have is that the last time I did big block of Saurus, I got locked in combat with his slaves, then he marched his Clan Rats right past my skirmishers and flanked the Saurus on BOTH sides. Saurus didn't last long in a 3 v 1 battle... So maybe I should keep the Salamanders closer to prevent that? (I'm not a very tactically-minded person... Could definitely use any advice people can offer).
And last match (thanks to some bad rolls) his unit of 30-something clan rats demolished my 36 skink Cohort (no surprise there) as well as all 3 Krox! that really made me sad, I had hoped that 3 Krox would be able to clear out the unit... but no luck. all dead 2nd or 3rd round of combat

Thanks again to everyone that has posted thus far!

 

[protector]

You do not need a slann, in fact I highly recommend against bringing one along, he is a massive points sink that will almost never see an equal return. I grew up playing lizardmen and have had a skaven opponent every week for years, they are a hard but incredibly fun army to play against, some things that will certainly help.

Saurus, bring units of at least 30, the more the merrier
Temple Guard, with flaming banner that is a must
Skink Priests, dispel scroll and cube to shut down 2 phases, both beasts with wyssans, after using their dispel item feel free to go solo and 6 dice wyssans. Unlike your slann there is almost no downside to irresistible forcing with them.
Cold One Calvary, with a scar vet BSB and skaven pelt this unit destroys everything it touches, 6 attacks per rank and file model

If you have questions about specific units that are giving you a hard time let me know.