8th Ed. 2000 point lists to fight the ultimate evil...

[Scalenex]

So my friend eron12 happens to be working on sculpting/converting four Daemon Princes. One per Chaos god. Most of them are pretty well along.

The idea came up before of us trying a Magnificent 7 Scenario (called 7 Knights back in 6th edition). One side makes a normal army. The other side goes 100% characters. Despite the conventions, why should the good guys be the lone heroes.

So Daemon Princes are considered overpowered by many but if I know EXACTLY what I'm facing, what does the anti-DP prince look like?

Slann, BSB, Standard of Discipline, Channeling Staff, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Becalming Cognition

Scar Veteran, Cold One, Great Weapon, Armor of Destiny
Skink Priest, L1 Heavens, Dispel Scroll
Skink Chief (Mr. 5 point), Terradon, javelins, Pigeon Plucker Amulet, Potion of Foolhardiness, Warrior Bane, Charmed Shield

24 Cohort Skinks, 3 Kroxigor, FC
24 Cohort Skinks, 3 Kroxigor, FC
13 Skink Skirmishers, Patrol Leader

30 Temple Guard, FC, War Banner.

Thoughts? How can this be improved?

I thought about taking Lore of Light instead of High Magic but I really want Unforging. I am on the fence whether a pack of Skirmishers with a Skink Priest is a good idea. I've pondered dropping the Skirmishers and or the warbanner in exchange for some MR for the Temple Guard or a few more TG bodies.

I like the idea of a sharpened horn Steggy impact hitting a DP to death but I just don't see a canny player with an all flyer army letting me get the charge with a Steggy. I'm also pondering a Scarnosaur but I don't know what I'd give up.


Now the back up team. We figure that win or lose the game will not be a drag out so we'll probably have time for two. Can Empire do better?

I'm not sure what I want to take beyond "three cannons." I like the idea of Marius Leitdorf leading the charge. You'd have to be crazy to take on four Daemon Princes. But he has no defenses really. Maybe take the Emperor? He's got offense and defense but me taking an ueber-hero sort of breaks the spirit of a Magnificent 7 game. It's supposed to be hordes versus the heroes/villains.

I'm not sure if I want my Core to be knights packing great weapons for a chance of inflicting wounds, spearmen for steadfastness or halberdiers to split the difference.

Demigryph knights (or in my case Bear Knights) should do well. I don't think I would want a STANK. I'd be a clunky block that would get one, maybe two shots off before a pair of DPs swept in and obliterated it on one charge.

I'm not sure how I can delay the inevitable charges against my canons.


Now if the DPs really one-sidedly beat my LM and Empire the thought occurred to me to try a hybrid army. So basically I'm thinking take the LM army and squeeze points here and there to buy three cannons right? Maybe throw a Battle Priest in with my Skrox or TG. Or I am missing some kind of brilliant Empire/Lizardmen combo.

And if the game turns out fun enough, we may try a Magnificent 7 with the Forces of Order as the Magnificent Ones. I think I'd probably go Slann-less. I'm not a big fan of lone Slann in general and he'd be pretty exposed with no army to speak of. Certainly I'd want cowboys and Carnosaur. Probably want to throw in Oxyotyl for razzmatazz, Tehenhauin and a vanilla priest or two. Probably resist taking Lore of Undeath. That's just not heroic. I have no idea if Erron12 would rather reverse Magnificent 7 with his O&G, Dwarfs, or WoC. I think O&G would be the most fun because they would be truly numerous hordes.

Empire WoC, I'd definitely I'd go Special character crazy. The Emperor, Marius Leitdorf, and Balthasar Gelt. Points left over would go towards a BSB perhaps, or a Captasus or two.

But my Magnificent characters will have to wait...

 

[airjamy]

How does one kill, that what cannot be killed? You ask a hard question here Scalanex

If i would go cheesy and if i would have the models, i would just go full skink cloud plus Slann with a massive ammount of TG. You will at least kill one DP, and in victory points you will probebly win, all the shooting and stand and shoots will do a lot of damage. Your Slann can support, and his unit should be able to take out one DP or a few by themselves.

With empire, if i would want to be cheesy, i would take cannons. And then maybe some cannons. And then when you are in doubt, more cannons. The biggest problem with DP for LM is that they only really are killed by cannons, and we do not have those. Just have a lot of big blocks of high LD empire that are steadfast, and shoot them with cannons as they approach, think it is a lot easier with Empire to kill DP's then with LM. And to stop the charges, you can just put some skirmishing archers in front of your cannons. Make it so your cannon can still look past the archers so they can shoot. Then make it so that the opponent cannot place his DP while not clipping into your archers, and voila, you have another free shot with your cannons if your archers hold out at least one turn,, or if you have multiple 10 man units of archers in front of your cannon, you can make sure that your cannons get another shot.

 

[ZeTe]

ancient steggie, 2 steggies (all with upgrades) 2 solar engines , throw a scarnosaur in there and fill the core with cohorts w/kroxs & poison atks and you should be good to go

 

[owain_b]

I'd go skink cloud and have plenty of chamo skinks as your first wave and skink skirmishers behind, just turn the DP into pin cushions. Wandering deliberation slann behind the lines and a couple of solar engines. I think it would be quite quick really, the amount of shots you can get off and you just need to do 16 wounds to kill the 4 DP

 

[themuffinman873]

I am note sure it is so easy with str 3 poison shots. I ran a quick simulation in excel, assuming javalins and to get a 6 to hit, or 4-5 to hit followed by a 6 to wound, then going through a 2+ armor and 4+ ward, you have about a 2% rate of success. So for 16 wounds we might need something in the order of 800 shots. I think all blowpipes would be the way to go since you can stand between 10.1-12" away from the DP to get your shots off on your turn and as a charge reaction. With blowpipes (assuming you are hitting on 6's) and going through all the same saves you have a 3% success rate of wounding.
I think the magic will really carry the game.
Edit: come to think of it, you can't get poisons on blowpipes at long range unless you don't move. Also, when that first unit of skinks explodes, you could have a mass panic on your hands.

 

[Lawot]

My best friend used to play Empire in 6th and 7th edition, before switching to High Elves in 8th. Either way, I think Lizardmen complement shooting armies nicely. So, if your opponent was up for letting you do a mixed Empire/Lizardmen army, here's what I'd do:
Lizardmen are the cloak and the net, getting in the way and just generally slowing down the DP's. Skinks, Razordons, Slann with Death, High or Light. Maybe TG to be an anvil. Empire are the dagger, bringing high-Strength attacks to the field. Cannons, naturally, handgunners and knights. Lead him around the middle of the field with Skinks, while blasting him with gunpowder. Look for ways to entrap him with Skinks to nail him with a charge from Rippers or Knights. Obviously, that's a little difficult with flying monsters, but the Cav can do double-duty protecting the cannons: point your Cav towards the cannons, and he can't attack them without leaving himself open to a charge from your heavy hitters.

That's my experience with Lizardmen and Empire...I'm afraid I have to experience against Daemons!

 

[Scalenex]

Battle report is up now.