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J.Logan said:
Implying that regular dwarfs aren't well known for their thick and lustrous facial fuzz to the point that a beardless dwarf is just a cursed image, no matter the setting.
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Warhammer Dwarfs, Chaos or vanilla, both feature beards as one of their primary characteristics. It's only in the style of the beards where they differ.


J.Logan said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Chaos Dwarf version of a slayer (can't remember the name off the top of my head, just that they are disgraced and put into a separate class... Infernal Guard maybe?), besides wearing even MOAR armour rather than the Slayer's preference for stripping, don't they have their beards shorn off to reflect their shame... before then having their heads sealed in a face concealing helmet so that none have to see their shameful faces...
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The CD equivalent of the Slayers are indeed called the Infernal Guard (and their more elite brethren, the Infernal Ironsworn). While they feature significantly more armour, including armoured helms, they still feature epic beards... every last one of them.

Infernal-Guard-Ironsworn-3.png
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
The CD equivalent of the Slayers are indeed called the Infernal Guard (and their more elite brethren, the Infernal Ironsworn). While they feature significantly more armour, including armoured helms, they still feature epic beards... every last one of them.
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Fair enough. Could have sword I heard somewhere that they were burnt off, but as I can't remember where, I'll assume it a Miranda Effect. Or a friend who didn't know what he was talking about when explaining the setting to me.
 
J.Logan said:
Fair enough. Could have sword I heard somewhere that they were burnt off, but as I can't remember where, I'll assume it a Miranda Effect. Or a friend who didn't know what he was talking about when explaining the setting to me.
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The flesh of their faces are seared and burnt underneath their iron helms, but the beards remain!
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
The flesh of their faces are seared and burnt underneath their iron helms, but the beards remain!
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That's dedication to keeping their face fuzz!

"My flesh is nothing but scar tissue, but gosh dang it, my jaw shall remain unscarred so that my precious follicles remain free and true!"

Well, that or they've all got beard wigs to pretend like they can still grow beards.
 
J.Logan said:
Back on the subject of the ranged weapons... that is definitely one of the areas that annoys me across AoS. WFB/TOW have weapon designs that are very "what if real world, but fantasy". But in AoS, they really tried too hard to get away from that. The Cities of Sigmar represent the worst of that in my eyes. What is wrong with a proper musket line? Why are we replacing muskets/arquebuses with stumpy cannons on the ends of sticks? So they can be used with pavises? SO CAN AN ARQUEBUS!
.
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To be fair, the fusilier's weapons are based on historical weaponry. I guess it is meant to show that in some ways the citizens of the Cities of Sigmar aren't quite as advanced as the Empire was.
 
Krox_v.2 said:
To be fair, the fusilier's weapons are based on historical weaponry. I guess it is meant to show that in some ways the citizens of the Cities of Sigmar aren't quite as advanced as the Empire was.
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*Longbeard worthy grumbling* Trying to bring logic into my grumblings...

Right... off the top of my head, the real-world weapon with the closest comparison to the fusiliers' weapons, would be the original handgun. To my knowledge, those still fired bullets and not artillery shot. But I will concede that a default rule of Warhammer, no matter which form of Warhammer that we speak of, has a rule of "bigger, badder, MEANER" when it comes to size and calibre of weapons, so I suppose I cannot fault the fusiliers for using literal cannons as their handguns by that token.

If you know of a closer fit, or I'm wrong regarding the original handgun, by all means educate me. I'm not afraid of being informed where I have gaps in my knowledge.

That said though... I still don't like them. They look terrible.
 
J.Logan said:
*Longbeard worthy grumbling* Trying to bring logic into my grumblings...

Right... off the top of my head, the real-world weapon with the closest comparison to the fusiliers' weapons, would be the original handgun. To my knowledge, those still fired bullets and not artillery shot. But I will concede that a default rule of Warhammer, no matter which form of Warhammer that we speak of, has a rule of "bigger, badder, MEANER" when it comes to size and calibre of weapons, so I suppose I cannot fault the fusiliers for using literal cannons as their handguns by that token.

If you know of a closer fit, or I'm wrong regarding the original handgun, by all means educate me. I'm not afraid of being informed where I have gaps in my knowledge.

That said though... I still don't like them. They look terrible.
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Oh I am with you on thinking they look terrible. I dislike much of the overall look of the Cities of Sigmar faction, with the exception of using them as a possible basis for DOW or Bret Exiles conversions.
 
Did anything other than Chaos Dwarfs or Tomb Kings catch anyone's eyes?
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
And therein lies the problem. They don't have sufficient aesthetic elements at their disposal to land the effect. Consequently, the end result is that the models do not effectively convey that these are female Chaos Dwarf models. They could just as easily be male Chaos Dwarf models without beards or as some have suggested, strange looking orc like models. They are ambiguous and end up looking a bit off.
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I mean, they can also just be young-dwarves, or disgraced dwarves, or maybe this incarnation of chaos dwarfs simply doesn't care as much about beards, or any other explenation really. With the exception of that one underworld warband model (or whatever it was), I don't think GW has actually stated that they made female chaos dwarfs. So really this whole discussion is just the grumbling of longbeards that the new thing doesn't look like the old thing, and some speculation as to why that is the case :p

J.Logan said:
*Longbeard worthy grumbling* Trying to bring logic into my grumblings...

Right... off the top of my head, the real-world weapon with the closest comparison to the fusiliers' weapons, would be the original handgun. To my knowledge, those still fired bullets and not artillery shot. But I will concede that a default rule of Warhammer, no matter which form of Warhammer that we speak of, has a rule of "bigger, badder, MEANER" when it comes to size and calibre of weapons, so I suppose I cannot fault the fusiliers for using literal cannons as their handguns by that token.

If you know of a closer fit, or I'm wrong regarding the original handgun, by all means educate me. I'm not afraid of being informed where I have gaps in my knowledge.

That said though... I still don't like them. They look terrible.
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The original handgun was basicly just a small cannon on a stick, so it's accurate enough I suppose.
And since proper bullets didn't really exist yet they just shot small cannonballs. So their ammo seems realistic enough as well, just with some magical options to deal with ghosts and endless spells.

Really, the most a-historic bit is the bayonet. But other than that it falls solidly into "real world, but fantasy".
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Speaking of which, someone over on Chaos Dwarfs Online made a mockup of how the new models might look under a different colour scheme...

520911122_10100763964811780_2384927139077860229_n.jpg
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Honestly, it's not so much the colour scheme as much as it is the removal of the glow and shine effects. Without all those glowing bits its a lot more fantasy and a lot less sci-fi.
 
Canas said:
I mean, they can also just be young-dwarves, or disgraced dwarves, or maybe this incarnation of chaos dwarfs simply doesn't care as much about beards, or any other explenation really.
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This still runs headlong into the same issue I raised earlier... you're so overly focused on whether or not they could, instead of considering whether or not they should. I can come up with hundreds of ideas to explain it, but that doesn't mean that any of it is good. You could for example design and justify a Warhammer Elven range featuring sloppy beards, acne, beer guts and balding heads, but that doesn't mean that you should.

Canas said:
or maybe this incarnation of chaos dwarfs simply doesn't care as much about beards
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Is this your attempt at: "tell me you don't know anything about Chaos Dwarfs, without telling me you don't know anything about Chaos Dwarfs"?

Consider yourself fortunate, in some parts of the world you'd be executed for uttering such blasphemy. :p


Canas said:
With the exception of that one underworld warband model (or whatever it was), I don't think GW has actually stated that they made female chaos dwarfs. So really this whole discussion is just the grumbling of longbeards that the new thing doesn't look like the old thing, and some speculation as to why that is the case :p
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Technically true, but it is reasonable to confer that they are female Chaos Dwarfs since they look the same as their Underworlds counterparts. Them being female CDs seems to be the general consensus. Otherwise, GW would just be further muddling the whole aesthetic problem.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
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What? You think a dwarf, Chaos or otherwise, would suffer to be seen without a beard? There is probably quite the market for beard wigs, for those unfortunate dwarfs who lose their beards because some barbarian swung an axe and missed their neck, but instead cut away their precious follicles. Anonymity guaranteed, just give a sample of your hair colour and the wig shall be delivered surreptitiously so nobody shall realise that you are in fact missing the sacred facial fluff. XD

I think the Infernal Guard do in fact have such utterly scarred faces that they depend upon such things. It's like the unspoken secret of the Infernal Guard, shared to new initiates after they realise the burning has also cost them there beard. 'Don't worry, lad... none of us have beards. We get a discount on beard wigs so none shall ever know that your beard didn't survive. Wear it with pride.'
 
J.Logan said:
What? You think a dwarf, Chaos or otherwise, would suffer to be seen without a beard? There is probably quite the market for beard wigs, for those unfortunate dwarfs who lose their beards because some barbarian swung an axe and missed their neck, but instead cut away their precious follicles. Anonymity guaranteed, just give a sample of your hair colour and the wig shall be delivered surreptitiously so nobody shall realise that you are in fact missing the sacred facial fluff. XD
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Are you suggesting some sort of Warhammer Dwarf equivalent of the Hair Club for Men?

J.Logan said:
I think the Infernal Guard do in fact have such utterly scarred faces that they depend upon such things. It's like the unspoken secret of the Infernal Guard, shared to new initiates after they realise the burning has also cost them there beard. 'Don't worry, lad... none of us have beards. We get a discount on beard wigs so none shall ever know that your beard didn't survive. Wear it with pride.'
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images
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
This still runs headlong into the same issue I raised earlier... you're so overly focused on whether or not they could, instead of considering whether or not they should. I can come up with hundreds of ideas to explain it, but that doesn't mean that any of it is good. You could for example design and justify a Warhammer Elven range featuring sloppy beards, acne, beer guts and balding heads, but that doesn't mean that you should.
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There isn't anything inherently wrong with their designs. You may not like them, but your complaints essentially boil down to "they're not proper chaos dwarfs". Which is true, but they're also not supposed to be. They're merely a spiritual succesor. You may deem them a failure as they're not close enough to the original in your eyes, but they fit in fine with the broader warhammer ranges. Unlike a beer belly elf, which would only work in bloodbowl, and even by bloodbowl standards that'd be weird.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Is this your attempt at: "tell me you don't know anything about Chaos Dwarfs, without telling me you don't know anything about Chaos Dwarfs"?

Consider yourself fortunate, in some parts of the world you'd be executed for uttering such blasphemy. :p
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They're not chaos dwarves though, they are <legally distinct name I cannot remember>. And perhaps <legally distinct name I cannot remember> simply do not care about beards. Maybe it's part of what makes them legally distinct :p

NIGHTBRINGER said:
Technically true, but it is reasonable to confer that they are female Chaos Dwarfs since they look the same as their Underworlds counterparts. Them being female CDs seems to be the general consensus. Otherwise, GW would just be further muddling the whole aesthetic problem.
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It's not unreasonable, but I really would like GW to actually provide official clarification. Mostly for the sake of clarity.
Plus, it'd open up some interesting world building regarding the faction culture.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Speaking of which, someone over on Chaos Dwarfs Online made a mockup of how the new models might look under a different colour scheme...

520911122_10100763964811780_2384927139077860229_n.jpg
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I thought they'd look good as a Warhammer: Total War-style army if someone just painted them in red, black and brass and gave them proper square bases.

What's the general consensus about the models over on CDO out of interest? I'd like to think the reception would be positive.
 
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