TOW 2000 tournament list with come comp

[Kalisto]

So I want to participate again to a two days tournament in september with the following rules and I am looking for some discussion/help about the list.
Firstly have to tell you a bit about scenarios that may give up to 500 points extra if you complete some objectives. Objectives are often required to be taken by core units OR units with standards (inclusive bsb). This is depending on scenario...so potentially skink skirmishers are great for this as well core infantry with banners too.

Tournament rules are more or less the following:
Rule of three (but max 2 rares)
800 max points characters (40%)
Max 7 wounds for characters (both on chariots and monster, this is only good for us)
Max 1 level 3/4 wizard (we don't mind either)

Due the following it's quite hard to don't play the Slann. I'd thought initially to avoid but to have a flying BSB that could take objectives is really good plus I would probably play anyway two blocks of infantries.
For the other heroes points I am really undecided. I have thought about a carnosaur but idk if play an oldlord or play a scarvet. It would be nice to have a skink on terradon with ruby of ring or a priest level 2 (but on foot isnt so good imho). I know salamanders are really contested but personally there will be a lot of infantry in this tournament and this is reason i want to play it. I have even considered to play 2 stegadons (an ancient and a normal) but I am not sure what to remove (maybe the Bastiladon but I don't know)

So suggestions =) ?


===
Lizardmen [1978 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [777 pts] ++

Slann Mage-Priest [350 pts]
- Hand weapon
- General
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Lore Familiar
- Soul Of Stone
- Elementalism

Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
- Great weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Carnosaur
- Talisman of Protection
- Armour of Meteoric Iron

Skink Chief [113 pts]
- Javelin
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Terradon
- Charmed Shield
- Ruby Ring of Ruin

++ Core Units [681 pts] ++

14 Saurus Warriors [224 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shieldwall
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer

16 Temple Guard [277 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Revered Guardian (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

++ Special Units [175 pts] ++

Bastiladon [175 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Thunderous bludgeon
- Solar Engine

++ Rare Units [345 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Engine of the Gods

1 Salamander Pack [90 pts]
- Wicked claws
- Fiery breath
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- 3x Skink Handlers with Hand weapons and Light armour (Calloused hides)

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

Good list, don’t like soul of stone, you can’t give him cogitation for points, maybe trascendent healing.

 

[BeardedLizard]

I think you've identified well what's going to be strong and what people are going to bring. In addition to Slann BSB I think Skink Chief BSB on Stegadon would be quite strong. If it was me playing your list I would make the following adjustments:

If I'm playing Skink chief on Terradon /w Ruby ring then I'd want some Terradon Riders to go with him. Also if you do decide to go with terradon riders then battle magic is the best lore for Slann for that 40 inch Terradon rockdrop.

Instead of taking Salamander to counter infantry I would just take another Stegadon. It gives you real staying power and ability to crush through tough infantry.

So my list would look something like:

++ Characters [764 pts] ++
Slann Mage-Priest [340 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Lore Familiar, Battle Magic)

Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
(Great weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Carnosaur, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron)

Skink Chief [110 pts]
(Hand weapon, Light armour (Calloused hide), Terradon, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Charmed Shield)

++ Core Units [670 pts] ++
16 Temple Guard [270 pts]
(Hand weapons, Halberds, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer)

14 Saurus Warriors [210 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Scouts)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Special Units [96 pts] ++
3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Rare Units [470 pts] ++
Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Engine of the Gods)

Stegadon [215 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Giant bow)

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Good list, don’t like soul of stone, you can’t give him cogitation for points, maybe trascendent healing.

Soul of Stone I feel is underrated.
Reduces the chance of a dimensional cascade by half (or increase it significantly if you want a large blast)
Reduces the chance of a Calamitous Detonation by 20%
Carless conjuration now is what you will get 44% of the time vice 16% of the time.
And you can avoid Barely Controlled Power altogether, either taking it down to careless or pumping it up to power drain to make sure it is cast with a perfect invocation.

It really makes the miscast table much more manageable. The only reason its meh is you have to miscast first. But for 10 points its great.

 

[Kalisto]

Soul of Stone I feel is underrated.
Reduces the chance of a dimensional cascade by half (or increase it significantly if you want a large blast)
Reduces the chance of a Calamitous Detonation by 20%
Carless conjuration now is what you will get 44% of the time vice 16% of the time.
And you can avoid Barely Controlled Power altogether, either taking it down to careless or pumping it up to power drain to make sure it is cast with a perfect invocation.

It really makes the miscast table much more manageable. The only reason its meh is you have to miscast first. But for 10 points its great.

Agree completely with you, usually I don’t okay it and prefer ethereal or becalming cogitation but since I have point for that it’s great

 

[Kalisto]

I think you've identified well what's going to be strong and what people are going to bring. In addition to Slann BSB I think Skink Chief BSB on Stegadon would be quite strong. If it was me playing your list I would make the following adjustments:

If I'm playing Skink chief on Terradon /w Ruby ring then I'd want some Terradon Riders to go with him. Also if you do decide to go with terradon riders then battle magic is the best lore for Slann for that 40 inch Terradon rockdrop.

Instead of taking Salamander to counter infantry I would just take another Stegadon. It gives you real staying power and ability to crush through tough infantry.

So my list would look something like:

++ Characters [764 pts] ++
Slann Mage-Priest [340 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Lore Familiar, Battle Magic)

Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
(Great weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Carnosaur, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron)

Skink Chief [110 pts]
(Hand weapon, Light armour (Calloused hide), Terradon, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Charmed Shield)

++ Core Units [670 pts] ++
16 Temple Guard [270 pts]
(Hand weapons, Halberds, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer)

14 Saurus Warriors [210 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Scouts)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Special Units [96 pts] ++
3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Rare Units [470 pts] ++
Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Engine of the Gods)

Stegadon [215 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Giant bow)

Your suggestion is very good, however I disagree that the skink hero have to stay with terradons. I want to fire the ring this mean not march often. Probably I’ll take a unit but I wouldn’t deploy them together. Usually when I play ripperdactyla I play them together but then the hero doesn’t have the ring

 

[discomute]

I agree an ethereal battle slann is much better than soul of stone elementalism. I think elementalism is fools gold at the moment, despite once thinking it was pretty good.

If you do take elementialism/SS then put the BSB on the carnosaur for the extra combat res. Otherwise leave on Slann for hammerhands assistance.

I've run temple guard a bit and... meh. Another advantage of ethereal you can lose them, maybe fill out the Saurus a bit - and take spears!

Salamanders are no good, I generally agree the list that bearedlizard did was stronger.

Although if you are playing RAW I like vangaurd over scouts as it doesn't deprive us of the +1 to go first.

 

[BeardedLizard]

Your suggestion is very good, however I disagree that the skink hero have to stay with terradons. I want to fire the ring this mean not march often. Probably I’ll take a unit but I wouldn’t deploy them together. Usually when I play ripperdactyla I play them together but then the hero doesn’t have the ring

I like to often start them together. The hero can always just leave the unit if there's an opportunity for a good rockdrop.

 

[Kalisto]

I agree an ethereal battle slann is much better than soul of stone elementalism. I think elementalism is fools gold at the moment, despite once thinking it was pretty good.

If you do take elementialism/SS then put the BSB on the carnosaur for the extra combat res. Otherwise leave on Slann for hammerhands assistance.

I've run temple guard a bit and... meh. Another advantage of ethereal you can lose them, maybe fill out the Saurus a bit - and take spears!

Salamanders are no good, I generally agree the list that bearedlizard did was stronger.

Although if you are playing RAW I like vangaurd over scouts as it doesn't deprive us of the +1 to go first.

This was a really GOOD SUGGESTION! I hadn’t think I can have bsb on scarvet! Just thought Slann due playing often Oldblood on carnosaur.

however I have to consider if I prefer the +1 resolution against the risk that the carnosaur is killed and another it the fact that the banner will be good to catch objectives. I have to think about that.
I’d like to try ethereal but then I have to remove armour of meteoric iron from the carnosaur to have enough points within the 800 point limits. An hard choice.

 

[BeardedLizard]

I’d like to try ethereal but then I have to remove armour of meteoric iron from the carnosaur to have enough points within the 800 point limits. An hard choice.

You could maybe drop the skink chief and give the Ruby ring to Slann?

 

[Kalisto]

I may but the skink chief is so effective since he can easily be outside dispel range. The slann can only cast in the frontal arc. If i don't play the skink chief I cannot play eventually terradons. If i make the slann ethereal give him the ruby ring is a bit of a waste. So I have just to decide a bit which tactic i want to use =)

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

This was a really GOOD SUGGESTION! I hadn’t think I can have bsb on scarvet! Just thought Slann due playing often Oldblood on carnosaur.

however I have to consider if I prefer the +1 resolution against the risk that the carnosaur is killed and another it the fact that the banner will be good to catch objectives. I have to think about that.
I’d like to try ethereal but then I have to remove armour of meteoric iron from the carnosaur to have enough points within the 800 point limits. An hard choice.

The carno is ok like that for me.

 

[discomute]

This was a really GOOD SUGGESTION! I hadn’t think I can have bsb on scarvet! Just thought Slann due playing often Oldblood on carnosaur.

however I have to consider if I prefer the +1 resolution against the risk that the carnosaur is killed and another it the fact that the banner will be good to catch objectives. I have to think about that.
I’d like to try ethereal but then I have to remove armour of meteoric iron from the carnosaur to have enough points within the 800 point limits. An hard choice.

I've also found that (especially at 2000+) points it's nice to have two 18" bubbles where one gets the leadership 9 of the Slann and one gets the reroll.

Yes finding the points is difficult, I also haven't had or seen a lot success with ruby ring but I know I'm in the minority here.

 

[Kalisto]

Yesterday I played

I think you've identified well what's going to be strong and what people are going to bring. In addition to Slann BSB I think Skink Chief BSB on Stegadon would be quite strong. If it was me playing your list I would make the following adjustments:

If I'm playing Skink chief on Terradon /w Ruby ring then I'd want some Terradon Riders to go with him. Also if you do decide to go with terradon riders then battle magic is the best lore for Slann for that 40 inch Terradon rockdrop.

Instead of taking Salamander to counter infantry I would just take another Stegadon. It gives you real staying power and ability to crush through tough infantry.

So my list would look something like:

++ Characters [764 pts] ++
Slann Mage-Priest [340 pts]
(Hand weapon, General, Battle Standard Bearer, Lore Familiar, Battle Magic)

Saurus Scar-Veteran [314 pts]
(Great weapon, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Carnosaur, Talisman of Protection, Armour of Meteoric Iron)

Skink Chief [110 pts]
(Hand weapon, Light armour (Calloused hide), Terradon, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Charmed Shield)

++ Core Units [670 pts] ++
16 Temple Guard [270 pts]
(Hand weapons, Halberds, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Revered Guardian (champion), Standard bearer)

14 Saurus Warriors [210 pts]
(Hand weapons, Shields, Heavy armour (Scaly skin), Spawn Leader (champion), Standard bearer)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

12 Skink Skirmishers [70 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides), Scouts)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Shields, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Special Units [96 pts] ++
3 Terradon Riders [96 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Light armour (Calloused hides))

++ Rare Units [470 pts] ++
Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Engine of the Gods)

Stegadon [215 pts]
(Hand weapons, Javelins, Great horns, Giant bow)

Yesterday I played this list with some small change (sorry not a fan of battle magic against a Chaos Dwarf army with sorcerer 4 on lammasu, 2 Iron Daemon, 40 hogboglins archers and 15 infernal guard with bludnerbuss (those who make d3 hit each). BSB with banner that gave magic resistence

I won 15-5 (2200 points against 1100) just because that damn frenzy carnosaur rolled a lot in overrun and got charged last turn by an Iron Daemon.
However my reflection is that 2 stegadon worked well, especially since he had so much infantry, but they couldnt had help against iron daemons that have strength 8. The hero on carnosaur killed barely one of these in 3 turns (but thank many double saves at 5+).

The magic didn't work so well, neither for me or for him, the only good thing that always worked was the ruby ring on fire on terradon hero. I played him on left and other 3 terradons on right, the unit in itself killed just some archers. They were good as distraction at least.

Luckely he had no taurus/minotaurs or cavalry (except for an alone hobgoblin hero), I wonder how those 2 stegadon will actually work against lot of cavalry.

Satisfied of yesterday game but slann isn't really worth it's points =(

 

[discomute]

Yesterday I played


Yesterday I played this list with some small change (sorry not a fan of battle magic against a Chaos Dwarf army with sorcerer 4 on lammasu, 2 Iron Daemon, 40 hogboglins archers and 15 infernal guard with bludnerbuss (those who make d3 hit each). BSB with banner that gave magic resistence

I won 15-5 (2200 points against 1100) just because that damn frenzy carnosaur rolled a lot in overrun and got charged last turn by an Iron Daemon.
However my reflection is that 2 stegadon worked well, especially since he had so much infantry, but they couldnt had help against iron daemons that have strength 8. The hero on carnosaur killed barely one of these in 3 turns (but thank many double saves at 5+).

The magic didn't work so well, neither for me or for him, the only good thing that always worked was the ruby ring on fire on terradon hero. I played him on left and other 3 terradons on right, the unit in itself killed just some archers. They were good as distraction at least.

Luckely he had no taurus/minotaurs or cavalry (except for an alone hobgoblin hero), I wonder how those 2 stegadon will actually work against lot of cavalry.

Satisfied of yesterday game but slann isn't really worth it's points =(

Yeah I know, the worst part is Slann was close... Close... To being worth it when they were monstrous infantry. I just don't get the massive nerf they copped and why it was necessary. I've played a lot with various Slann and the only thing that's close to viable is Ethereal with a good assailment. So battle haha. (For the millionth time I wish the necromancy assailment was close to viable, wtf were the designers thinking with that spell it's bizarre)

 

[Kalisto]

I tried to build another list but without a Slann. It includes ripperdactyls and it’s a bit crazy but maybe I want to test it before the tournament.
I could probably change TG to another saurus unit. I could also remove engine of gods and give ruby ring to the TG champion it not sure is a good idea since then they cannot march. Not sure about which lore I could use with the caster 2 and if maybe lore familiar would be a better choice.
I’d also play champion in ripperdactyl but it’s quite easy just removing musician to TG (if not removing the whole unit)
===

2000 [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [743 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Skink Chief [196 pts]
- Cavalry spear
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer [Sun Standard Of Chotec]
- Ripperdactyl
- Glyph Necklace

Skink Priest [140 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Level 2 Wizard
- On foot
- Cube Of Darkness
- Elementalism??

++ Core Units [667 pts] ++

14 Saurus Warriors [210 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Spawn Leader (champion)
- Standard bearer

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

12 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

16 Temple Guard [277 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Shields
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Revered Guardian (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

10 Skink Skirmishers [60 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)
- Scouts

++ Special Units [120 pts] ++

3 Ripperdactyl Riders [120 pts]
- Cavalry spears
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [470 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [255 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Engine of the Gods

Stegadon [215 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Great horns
- Giant bow

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

BsB on ripple= free points for enemy

 

[Kalisto]

Yeah I know, the worst part is Slann was close... Close... To being worth it when they were monstrous infantry. I just don't get the massive nerf they copped and why it was necessary. I've played a lot with various Slann and the only thing that's close to viable is Ethereal with a good assailment. So battle haha. (For the millionth time I wish the necromancy assailment was close to viable, wtf were the designers thinking with that spell it's bizarre)

I could teoretocally make place for it. Just removing lore familiar and getting battle magic (signature is guaranteed anyway and you have a 50% to get fireball). If I find 20 more points I could even add the war banner to the Slann.

That I don’t like is although to renounce at moonson that can be a very good spell in some situations

 

[Kalisto]

BsB on ripple= free points for enemy

Have you tried it? It’s not easy to play but I can guarantee you that can work. Not easy choice however and maybe not the best one

The only problem is I have just realized that they don’t get the -1 to be hitted as skirmishes since they are monstrous cavalry. This is a change since before editions (

 

[TzhunkiHuanchisukaePiangi]

Have you tried it? It’s not easy to play but I can guarantee you that can work. Not easy choice however and maybe not the best one

The only problem is I have just realized that they don’t get the -1 to be hitted as skirmishes since they are monstrous cavalry. This is a change since before editions (

wrong, they have -1. the type of unit doesn't matter. if they have the skirmishers special rule you have -1 to shoot against them. in fact the Bretonnian pegasi are the typical example.