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TOW Lizardmen full unit tierlist

Yes that is how I believe a tournament list would look
 
RipperDerek said:
I don't know that I'd call it "dancing skinks around". Skinks mostly belong up in the opponent's face, throwing Javelins at them and daring them to charge. You position the skinks so that if they do charge, it will draw them into the middle of the table (or towards the edge, as is your preference) and off center. They are also good at doing various odd jobs, like cleaning up war machines, engaging enemy skirmishers, etc. My first round opponent had 2 vanguarding tomb scorpions, for example, that just got shot down by all the skinks before they could get near my monsters. 2nd round scenario was command tower, and I used a unit of skinks to garrison the tower. Etc.
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Thanks for that, so you actually use skinks in a position where they WILL get charged, but to an angle where your main line will follow up. Assuming skinks don't die and they don't get a reform. Sad that Cold Blooded isn't for more Ld checks, as retreating then reforming would work well but alas, Ld5
 
RipperDerek said:
Since multiple people have asked, my lists for both of the last two events are below. The ancient stegadons have been fine, but it is the characters who are putting in most of the work. I am actually considering replacing one steg in the 2000 point list with a troglodon, even though it is an almost strictly inferior unit, to get some more dispel options without having to sacrifice fighting power in the character slots. The ancient stegs are good but don't feel mission critical. It also helps a bit with rule of 3 comp, some places count character mounts against rare, some don't. But I'm not sure yet.

Regarding cannons, like magic I think they are not as big a threat as everyone thinks. Many things have to go right for them to actually hurt your monsters - there has to not be terrain in the way. They have to not misfire. They have to bounce through you. They have to not roll a 1 to wound you. You have to fail your ward save. And even then, they might roll poorly on multiple wounds. The odds that something somewhere goes wrong and your monster just shrugs it off is pretty high, and after 2 turns of shooting, you're probably in combat. So if my skinks can't get to them, I mostly just believe in the math and move forward.

===
2000 [1998 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [1000 pts] ++

Carnosaur w/Old Blood - B'ahss Ilisk (GEN) [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Stegadon w/Skink Chief - Oroh B'Oross (BSB) [324 pts]
- Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted)
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Stegadon
- Enchanted Shield

Stegadon w/Skink Chief - Oroh Chi [269 pts]
- Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted)
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Stegadon
- Charmed Shield

++ Core Units [538 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warrior [278 pts]
- Hand weapons and shields
- scaly skin (counts as heavy armour)
- Spawn Leader (champion) [Charmed Shield]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- The Vanguard
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- The Vanguard
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [460 pts] ++

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Great horns and giant bow
- Skink Crew (x5) with hand weapons and Javelins (required)

Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Great horns and giant bow
- Skink Crew (x5) with hand weapons and Javelins (required)


===
1500 [1499 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Lizardmen
===

++ Characters [731 pts] ++

Saurus Oldblood [407 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Heavy armour (Scaly skin)
- Shield
- General
- Carnosaur
- Ogre Blade
- Talisman of Protection

Skink Chief [324 pts]
- Cavalry spear (if appropriately mounted)
- Light armour (Calloused hide)
- Battle Standard Bearer [War Banner]
- Stegadon
- Enchanted Shield

++ Core Units [538 pts] ++

18 Saurus Warrior [278 pts]
- Hand weapons and shields
- scaly skin (counts as heavy armour)
- Spawn Leader (champion) [Charmed Shield]
- Standard bearer
- Musician

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- The Vanguard
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [55 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- The Vanguard
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Javelins and shields
- calloused hides (counts as light armour)
- Hand weapons

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

10 Skink Skirmishers [50 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields
- Light armour (Calloused hides)

++ Rare Units [230 pts] ++

1 Ancient Stegadon [230 pts]
- Great horns and giant bow
- Skink Crew (x5) with hand weapons and Javelins (required)

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]
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Looks pretty strong, i like it. I would personally go for a 140 unit of Sauri and make the 2 Vanguard units bigger and definitely go for basties, but i can totally see this approach.
 
PlasmaDavid said:
Thanks for that, so you actually use skinks in a position where they WILL get charged, but to an angle where your main line will follow up. Assuming skinks don't die and they don't get a reform. Sad that Cold Blooded isn't for more Ld checks, as retreating then reforming would work well but alas, Ld5
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I know. Even 6 would be a massive step up. But then stand and shooting is the best option most of the time.
 
Them getting to reform is usually fine. The point is you can now get the charge against units that usually outrange you. Also, depending on where you draw them to, there is sometimes just no good option for which way to face them. The skinks don't need to hold, they just need to make sure whichever way they end up going leaves the enemy stranded and in a vulnerable position.
 
I see, so redirector OR simply a road block to leet you get the charge.
 
discomute said:
I know. Even 6 would be a massive step up. But then stand and shooting is the best option most of the time.
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Effectively on cold blooded it is ld 7, which is pretty fine. I really have not found panicking that big an issue, really do not forget that if you are above 50% it is a FBIGO, so you do not need to test to regroup and you can do anything you want (you just can't charge, but you weren't charging your skinks anyway, right?).
 
airjamy said:
Effectively on cold blooded it is ld 7, which is pretty fine. I really have not found panicking that big an issue, really do not forget that if you are above 50% it is a FBIGO, so you do not need to test to regroup and you can do anything you want (you just can't charge, but you weren't charging your skinks anyway, right?).
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Flee charge reaction is not a panic test.. so you have to test to rally at ld5.
 
Yeah but my quote was in the context of choosing to flee, it often puts the chargers in a poor position. I'd sacrifice stand and shoot to allow a Saurus block to charge into a flank. Unless your general is likely to be within 18, you're saying my goodbye to the unit.
 
Don’t how my usual gaming mates would take 4 stegadons. The list looks very strong as honestly in the limited time the game has been out it’s the big monster mounts that are dominating. My strigoi on terrorgheist is just cleaning up in games with my vampires. I will always bring at least one big monster to every game.
 
jasonpb said:
Don’t how my usual gaming mates would take 4 stegadons. The list looks very strong as honestly in the limited time the game has been out it’s the big monster mounts that are dominating. My strigoi on terrorgheist is just cleaning up in games with my vampires. I will always bring at least one big monster to every game.
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Monsters are definitely where it is at right now, even more if you are playing LIzards!
 
I'm interested in trying Bastiladons, but one issue I have is that I hate the model. It's way too big relative to its fighting strength and doesn't look at all like the oldschool monsters.

Does anyone have good suggestions for proxy models?
 
I play it along all my old models and it’s ok, even if I agree with you about the size difference it’s still not so big difference. You could mount the crystal somewhere else … maybe something 3d printed? Or on 4 temple guard with a palanquin?
 
RipperDerek said:
I'm interested in trying Bastiladons, but one issue I have is that I hate the model. It's way too big relative to its fighting strength and doesn't look at all like the oldschool monsters.

Does anyone have good suggestions for proxy models?
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I love the model and the way the skinks hang off it instead of riding it. I just imagine it's very very slow.
 
New FAQ had the biggest impact on Slann, Skink Priest and Bastiladon, maybe Skink Chief depending on how your playgroup ruled poison/bow shooting before.

*I think Slann definitely drops down a whole tier from the changes.
*Skink Priest is worse than before, but goes up in value if you play a toadless list. + in toadless lists the nerf to Arcane Vassal has no impact
*Bastiladon is mostly about shooting, but not giving combat res from close order is certainly a big deal. He used to work great in tandem with other close order units.
*Skink chief on stegadon is still awesome
 
BeardedLizard said:
New FAQ had the biggest impact on Slann, Skink Priest and Bastiladon, maybe Skink Chief depending on how your playgroup ruled poison/bow shooting before.

*I think Slann definitely drops down a whole tier from the changes.
*Skink Priest is worse than before, but goes up in value if you play a toadless list. + in toadless lists the nerf to Arcane Vassal has no impact
*Bastiladon is mostly about shooting, but not giving combat res from close order is certainly a big deal. He used to work great in tandem with other close order units.
*Skink chief on stegadon is still awesome
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I agree. RAW, you only get Close Order point if you are 2 models or more, so i played as if there was no point from that anyway. It does not really matter for the bastie, it should not be in close combat anyway. Slann is a whole tier lower now. Ill update it i think!
 
airjamy said:
I agree. RAW, you only get Close Order point if you are 2 models or more, so i played as if there was no point from that anyway. It does not really matter for the bastie, it should not be in close combat anyway. Slann is a whole tier lower now. Ill update it i think!
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The Lumbering rule specifically removes the 2 model requirement to be in Close Order (the rules do not say 2 models to get the +1, it says 2 models to be in close order at all). Just FYI, I don't think it's likely to come up any more now that it is changed to unit strength 5.
 
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