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[WithCarbos]

Mage-Priests have Fly and cannot join units (no more blowing up the Temple Guards, at least), but Skink Priests can. Will range SELF spells cast by a Slann through an Arcane Vassal affect the unit that Arcane Vassal has joined? "... the range, targeting restrictions and all effects of the spell are measured from this model, rather than from the caster."

In other words, can a Mage-Priest still Glittering Robe/Oaken Shield/Walk Between Worlds/etc. a Saurus unit that has been joined by a Skink Priest?

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

This is where being a legacy faction with low chances of an FAQ or errata really is gonna stink. Email GW the question, but don't expect a ruling

I would think the answer is yes, but the only issue being the spells all call out the "caster" where Arcane vassal still refers to the slann as the caster and the skink as "this model". The vassal isn't the caster, just a model to serve as a point to measure from. So if it affects the caster and a unit they joined, and the vassal doesn't count as the caster, just a range extender, and the slann hasn't joined a unit.... welp.

 

[Rimbo]

Mage-Priests have Fly and cannot join units (no more blowing up the Temple Guards, at least), but Skink Priests can. Will range SELF spells cast by a Slann through an Arcane Vassal affect the unit that Arcane Vassal has joined? "... the range, targeting restrictions and all effects of the spell are measured from this model, rather than from the caster."

In other words, can a Mage-Priest still Glittering Robe/Oaken Shield/Walk Between Worlds/etc. a Saurus unit that has been joined by a Skink Priest?

Write to GW, here is an email: oldworldfaq@gwplc.com
To be honest I was thinking about it myself and asked this question already, but I feel the more people show there is some confusion regarding this rule the better. Also while we may never see an answer it is worth pointing out that Warhammer the Old World social media team provided the FAQ email when people pointed out some mistakes in Vampires Legacy PDF. So maybe they will correct some mistakes and anser at least some questions.

 

[discomute]

It would also mean that you if want to cast Apotheosis on the Slann itself it would need to be the skink that cast it - and it is a 10+/12+ cast. I don't think the Slann cab actually cast it on itself via the skink as a vassal.

My issue with all of the disciplines of the old ones is that the good ones cost a lot of points. I can't see taking anything from 35 points or under. Maaybe Soul of Stone if you didn't have anything better to spend your points on and had planned for none.

 

[Ersh]

I fully disagree, the Lore of Lustria is most useful - Skinks can take it too so can use Apotheosis to heal your Slann, and Monsoon is a very nice counter to enemy shooting which of course we hate.

Apotheosis is not bad, but... The target could be only cav or infantry characters. Not sure about characters on monsters =/ And our monsters could not be targets at all.

 

[discomute]

Apotheosis is not bad, but... The target could be only cav or infantry characters. Not sure about characters on monsters =/ And our monsters could not be targets at all.

Very good point. Skinks will find it hard to cast. Slann won't, but what's the target? Nothing on a carnosaur or stegadon. So therefore likely a cowboy, which don't have a huge amount of wounds.

That said, don't forget the side benefit of giving Fear, or upgrading Fear to Terror. Very handy that, even with no wounds being added.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Very good point. Skinks will find it hard to cast. Slann won't, but what's the target? Nothing on a carnosaur or stegadon. So therefore likely a cowboy, which don't have a huge amount of wounds.

That said, don't forget the side benefit of giving Fear, or upgrading Fear to Terror. Very handy that, even with no wounds being added.

See I'm not convinced the carno is not an intended target. They specifically put it in the cavalry section. Another thing to hit up the FAQ about.
For now I'd play it RAW for my opponents benefit and not use it on the Carno. But the spell really feels like it was written for that. Otherwise I'd have lowered the casting value.

 

[discomute]

See I'm not convinced the carno is not an intended target. They specifically put it in the cavalry section. Another thing to hit up the FAQ about.
For now I'd play it RAW for my opponents benefit and not use it on the Carno. But the spell really feels like it was written for that. Otherwise I'd have lowered the casting value.

I just read it again. The troop type is what is relevant, not what the section is. That said...

I actually think RAW is stranger than we realise. The carnosaurs doesn't have wounds. So the spell would actually be cast on the old blood, which is infantry. Is there a broader rule that gives a character the same troop type as it's mount?

 

[Ersh]

The carnosaurs doesn't have wounds. So the spell would actually be cast on the old blood, which is infantry. Is there a broader rule that gives a character the same troop type as it's mount?

The problem is that if it is so - then carno's multiple wounds against "monsters" would also work only against a monster, but not against a let's say - vampire on a dragon. And that makes no sense.

 

[discomute]

Okay page 204

Yes a character just becomes the troop type of what it is riding
Also Behemoths are a type of monster, useful to know for a claws, if not sort of obvious now I think about it

I do not think Apotheosis can work on a carnosaur, nor is supposed to by RAI.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I just read it again. The troop type is what is relevant, not what the section is. That said...

I actually think RAW is stranger than we realise. The carnosaurs doesn't have wounds. So the spell would actually be cast on the old blood, which is infantry. Is there a broader rule that gives a character the same troop type as it's mount?

Yes. Page 204 of the BTB. Covers cavalry mounts and monster mounts.

For monsters (which include behemoth)

If a character is mounted upon a ridden
monster (be it a ‘monstrous creature’ or a
‘behemoth’), the whole model is treated
as being of the mount’s sub-category of
troop type.​

This is what protects us from killing blow. KB works against infantry but not behemoth. Obviously killing blow should not be able to slay my 7 wound, 400+ point trex on a godzilla mount.


But now that definitely means Apotheosis wasn't meant to work on a carno. Which really limits the spells use IMO and makes it weird.

It heals D3 or D3+1, but doesn't work on behemoth

Meanwhile Skink heroes are 3 wounds max on a terradon/ripper and old bloods/scar vets are 3 or 2 wounds.

And you can't heal to more than starting wounds right? You are "regaining wounds" not "adding wounds"

So the only thing it's ever fully effective on is a slann. Who can't cast it on himself? And is therefore relying on a level 2 Skink at best to cast it.
I guess that's why we have the grub? Or does he count as a friendly character for the purposes of targeting

Also realizing now the carno's extra damage doesn't work vs monstrous infantry or cavalry either

 

[Ersh]

Yes. Page 204 of the BTB. Covers cavalry mounts and monster mounts.
But now that definitely means Apotheosis wasn't meant to work on a carno. Which really limits the spells use IMO and makes it weird.

Yep. As I said - Lore of Lustria is thematic but not very useful. Except... With Wondering Deliberations. If you think that some spell will be not effective against the opponent's army, but probably (?) you will need Apotheosis/Monsoon - you can swap it.

But overall... As my 1st impressions told me - let's wait for our book. I expect a rework of Lustria magic, new mounts, etc. But also I would not expect that GW will release it soon - as Seraphon book came out not long ago.

 

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

We are a legacy faction.

We won't get a book (at least not anytime soon). The have been emphatic about that.

My guess is years, like 2nd Edition ToW, until legacy factions (so LM, VC, chorfs, daemons, skaven, DE) get a book. My guess is we even see Kislev and Cathay first.

 

[discomute]

Also realizing now the carno's extra damage doesn't work vs monstrous infantry or cavalry either

Carnosaurs are still very good.

So could a Slann use apotheosis via a skink caster to cast it on the skink itself?

To me it seems like... No... But surely apotheosis has to work on either the Slann or the skink.

My guess is the skink

If it works on the slann then it will be quite useful. If not I'd say useless unless they are a low leadership army and you are maybe taking a cowboy or something.

PS. I don't care if we never get a book as long as any balancing and errata includes us.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Carnosaurs are still very good.

So could a Slann use apotheosis via a skink caster to cast it on the skink itself?

To me it seems like... No... But surely apotheosis has to work on either the Slann or the skink.

My guess is the skink

If it works on the slann then it will be quite useful. If not I'd say useless unless they are a low leadership army and you are maybe taking a cowboy or something.

PS. I don't care if we never get a book as long as any balancing and errata includes us.

As I've said before, Apotheosis does work on a Slann, because he is a Monstrous Infantry character which now falls under the Infantry category. This is why I'm a big advocate of the spell - it's another way to bypass the durability setbacks of not being able to let the Slann join a Temple Guard unit anymore.

 

[discomute]

As I've said before, Apotheosis does work on a Slann, because he is a Monstrous Infantry character which now falls under the Infantry category. This is why I'm a big advocate of the spell - it's another way to bypass the durability setbacks of not being able to let the Slann join a Temple Guard unit anymore.

I was under the impression the Slann could not cast it on himself... am I wrong?

 

[WithCarbos]

Apotheosis: "This spell can only target friendly characters whose troop type is ‘infantry’ or ‘cavalry’ ..."
Slann troop type: Monstrous Infantry (which is infantry).
Looks like Slanns can target themselves with Apotheosis, since a Slann is a friendly infantry character. The only other targets are haracters on foot or mounted on Cold Ones/Terradons/Ripperducks.

Apotheosis feels kinda bad. High cost and cannot target monster-mounted characters, and the alternative – Monsoon – is simply an awesome spell.

 

[Rimbo]

Yes, Slann can cast apotheosis on himself. Also I don't think it is a bad spell. There aren't many healing spells in the game (none in the basic lores) and it makes lists based on cowboys and flyink skink chiefs more reliable. Also these characters will cause terror then which is good in this edition.

 

[Ersh]

Some kind soul in a FB group created magic cards.

 

[Acehilator]

Is there a rule concerning magic standards in the core rules? Or can Saurus Warriors really not take one?