Tutorial The Old World Lizardmen Army PDF is out and free

[discomute]

Here it is:
https://www.warhammer-community.com...FheCV7AVCLCqZAtu8xDqCHL0VoDDE51lZseO1UgnL88q0

Any thoughts?

Mine roughly go
a) I love that temple guard are now core. I never wanted normal Saurus or skink skirmishers anyway
b) A bit sad to see the "skinks swarming around a few Kroxigor" disappear
c) Was hoping we might follow total war and get some feral carnosaurs, but I guess not

PS - Can we get a new prefix for the old world?

 

[Ersh]

good:
-TG are now core units
-carnosaurus is not a separate unit that could be killed, but just gives bonuses to its master (still I'm not sure - will magic items of a hero also provide bonuses to a mount?)

cons:
-it look like our scales are already considered as armour, and you just can't put any additional armour (how are we going to survive the 1st round with our initiative without good armour - is a mystery to me)
-no more additional attacks on 6
-no "new" AoS mount models - I was hoping that they would replace cold ones, they are just bigger and better sculpted

 

[discomute]

-carnosaurus is not a separate unit that could be killed, but just gives bonuses to its master (still I'm not sure - will magic items of a hero also provide bonuses to a mount?)

Yes I think they are trying to streamline the rules to get the length of the games down. I have never played AoS, but the idea of 2 hour games for 2000 points does sound amazing.

cons:
-it look like our scales are already considered as armour, and you just can't put any additional armour (how are we going to survive the 1st round with our initiative without good armour - is a mystery to me)

Good pick up. I had not considered that. I personally love running a single large block of infantry with loads of fun dinosaurs and fast cav. I had wondered if Skinks might actually work better but without being able to lump kroxigor in, yeah probably not.

-no more additional attacks on 6

All part of trying to streamline the game I think

-no "new" AoS mount models - I was hoping that they would replace cold ones, they are just bigger and better sculpted

I actually really like the old cavalry, the new ones are good too. I have heard that the issue with the AoS ones is that they are unlikely to fit on the bases due to their size.

 

[Ersh]

And there are lots of things that I probably forgot, but... I'm not sure. For example, stegadon's Engine of the Gods - now you need 2+ of them in the army to give casting bonuses to the closes wizard. (it was just one before, no?)

Ark of Stotek - could by a mistypo, "AP of -" . -1? -0?

So, overall - looks like a mixed bag. Yes, Old Worlds is back, but our army looks outdated and nerfed at the same time. For example Oldblood WS 6, and human Bretonnian duke - WS 7.

So, let's recall how to play, and hope, that when our box is released - things will become better.

 

[discomute]

So, let's recall how to play, and hope, that if our box is released - things will become better.

 

[Ersh]

...and temple guards initiative became 1 (it was 2), so the crystal of a Solar Engine - that gives 1 I to nearest units - became even more useless, than it was before.
...and TG are more expensive now, lol. Now I have "Vietnam flashbacks" of a Purple Sun (or was it pit of shades?) that was checking for Init saves of my TG and just deleted almost all of them in a single cast.
...and Ward Save of Slanns is also nerfed

Edit: but there are a few good news - magic items. "Horned One" and "Cupped Hands Of The Old Ones" look promising.
But overall - the removal of a "Predatory Fighter" and (looks like) the inability to wear armour (with our Init) - looks like a HUGE nerf.

 

[discomute]

Jungle Swarms are insanely good for 40p. It's a shame I dislike the models so much I won't run them. But honestly if you wanted to be tournament competative I'd think your anvil and core being entirely jungle swarms would do the job.

 

[discomute]

The index for Lizzies is out!

First impressions. Skink skirmishers got STRONGER, skirmishier formation is now fully free and javelin skirmishers are 5 pts per model now and retain all rules, skirmishers, quick to fire basically, march and shoot, poison, so strong.

1 unit of Saurus warriors is now compulsory, idk if that matters, is probably not great.

Salamanders nerfed pretty hard, no more artillery dice added to your breath weapon, you just put the teardrop on your base. No march and shoot makes that rough.

Scarvets and cowboy builds are gone, the combos are just not there.

Slann are outside TG units now but they still get look out sir? Weird and probably worse. Channeling combo also gone but that is to be expected.

Scaly skin is just the same as heavy armor now, only really matters for characters, it is very hard to get to the 2+ for them now which also kills cowboy combos, which is probably for the best.

Most disciplines are still there and very similar to 8th.

Carno looks good with them being a flat upgrade on an oldblood! No more killing the rider! All our monsters looking strong, with even the Troglodon becoming a full lvl 1 caster now which is very cool!

Looks very faithful to 8th for me, excited to try this out. Skinks let's go! Will be hosting a tournament in my local area which will allow indexes (I'll play my Lizzies thank you very much), think this looks cool!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/22/old-world-almanack-download-the-legacy-pdfs-here/

Okay so a bit of a "quote in a different thread" event here but I was thinking the other thread was for general discussion around the rules of TOW and this could be for our army list.

I think the mods perhaps to encourage TOW as its own entity in here - its clearly a big deal.

TG have lookout sir via Temple Guard "guardians" special rule which is within 3 inches

I did not notice compulsory saurus that really sucks to be honest, why can't I have TG and skinks forming my core, especially at 1000 points?

Additionally 1000 points would be difficult for us, you'd think 20 odd saurus and a slann, and thanks to the rule 20 TG are now basically required leaving 115 of points to round it. Well... actually I guess you just aren't going to run a slann at 1000 points. Old blood on a carno and skink priest on a trog it is.

edit - the other thing that really really sucks about required saurus is that the current models wont fit the 30mm bases. The temple guard will becuase they are so uniform and halberds are straight up.

 

[discomute]

Okay my all time favourite ripperdactyls might be useless. An issue is the uncertainty around the rule "impetuous". Well its not really uncertain I just wonder if RAW reflect RAI.

Impetuous
The eagerness of brash and brave warriors can lead them into foolish charges. If during the Declare Charges & Charge Reactions sub-phase of its turn, a unit that includes one or more Impetuous models is able to declare a charge, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3, the unit must declare a charge. On a roll of 4+, the unit may act as normal.

So RAW means that anything that is movement + 12 inches(!) will need to roll for this. In other words, impetuous units are virtually useless as not only will they charge anything, clever opponents will ensure the charge is likely to fail.

I really wonder if RAI is just when the charge is guaranteed to succeed but as it stands, you would be crazy to take Rippers.

The more I understand the more that I think the units I really love have been nerfed and ones I don't like much are auto includes.

 

[hardyworld]

I'm frustrated not just by the legends army lists being tailored to "grand army" builds only, but by The Old World in general gearing games to grand armies. I thought focusing on 500-1000 pt. armies with this new game could significantly reduce the barrier to entry for new Warhammer Fantasy players. This was a huge missed opportunity for GW.

Maybe I'm in the minority....but I kinda like that a unit of Saurus Warriors are compulsory.

Lore of Lustria looks underwhelming. Pretty disappointed in spells appearing weak.

Arcane Configuration requires TWO Engines of the Gods to provide a +1 to cast to a mage within 6" of one. Incredibly weak effect with such a high requirements to activate.

 

[discomute]

I'm frustrated not just by the legends army lists being tailored to "grand army" builds only, but by The Old World in general gearing games to grand armies. I thought focusing on 500-1000 pt. armies with this new game could significantly reduce the barrier to entry for new Warhammer Fantasy players. This was a huge missed opportunity for GW.

Excellent point. I have heard (don't we love internet rumours) that a lot of the army selection was done to avoid compeition with AoS. E.g. skaven missing out because they are about to be released. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

I now want to buy some Saurus but would love to see the current AoS range on square bases

 

[airjamy]

I'm frustrated not just by the legends army lists being tailored to "grand army" builds only, but by The Old World in general gearing games to grand armies. I thought focusing on 500-1000 pt. armies with this new game could significantly reduce the barrier to entry for new Warhammer Fantasy players. This was a huge missed opportunity for GW.

Maybe I'm in the minority....but I kinda like that a unit of Saurus Warriors are compulsory.

Lore of Lustria looks underwhelming. Pretty disappointed in spells appearing weak.

Arcane Configuration requires TWO Engines of the Gods to provide a +1 to cast to a mage within 6" of one. Incredibly weak effect with such a high requirements to activate.

Yeah I agree. Really mixed units. Cold ones also look stupendously bad with not getting your cold blood dice and stupidity stopping your charge now, those guys are unplayable.

Stegadons, TG, Carnos and most definitely SKINKS is where it is at if you ask me. Maybe Troglodons as well, the guy on top gets to dispell now as well which is very cool.

 

[airjamy]

Okay so a bit of a "quote in a different thread" event here but I was thinking the other thread was for general discussion around the rules of TOW and this could be for our army list.

I think the mods perhaps to encourage TOW as its own entity in here - its clearly a big deal.

TG have lookout sir via Temple Guard "guardians" special rule which is within 3 inches

I did not notice compulsory saurus that really sucks to be honest, why can't I have TG and skinks forming my core, especially at 1000 points?

Additionally 1000 points would be difficult for us, you'd think 20 odd saurus and a slann, and thanks to the rule 20 TG are now basically required leaving 115 of points to round it. Well... actually I guess you just aren't going to run a slann at 1000 points. Old blood on a carno and skink priest on a trog it is.

edit - the other thing that really really sucks about required saurus is that the current models wont fit the 30mm bases. The temple guard will becuase they are so uniform and halberds are straight up.

I mean the game was never really meant to be played at 1000. Also at that, I would just go hard on skinks. Looking at this, skink cloud will be extremely annoying.

I also do not know if I am missing something but the Bastiladon does not seem to have a save.. ? XD

 

[airjamy]

I also hate to say it but Slann look maybe kinda.. bad? They are expensive, have to run solo so they are way more easily caught than before, they are just a normal lvl 4 caster, disciplines look very meh, I don't know why you would take them really. Carnosaurs look like our only half way viable way to get rid of a Dragon and a lot more points effective.

 

[discomute]

Yeah I agree. Really mixed units. Cold ones also look stupendously bad with not getting your cold blood dice and stupidity stopping your charge now, those guys are unplayable.

Someone said this on YouTube, but it was pointed out that they are ridiculous models for their point cost. So I don't know about "unplayable".

 

[airjamy]

Someone said this on YouTube, but it was pointed out that they are ridiculous models for their point cost. So I don't know about "unplayable".

I mean having decent stats sounds great in maths land but not getting to charge when you want to can easily lose you a game. 5/18 times they do not do what you want them to which is a lot..

 

[discomute]

Maybe Troglodons as well, the guy on top gets to dispell now as well which is very cool.

Yes this is starting to make sense to me. 1000 point armies being old blood and carno, tog and skink and some Saurus. Fun.

Although I still think our #1 unit has to be jungle swarms

 

[discomute]

I mean the game was never really meant to be played at 1000. Also at that, I would just go hard on skinks. Looking at this, skink cloud will be extremely annoying.

I also do not know if I am missing something but the Bastiladon does not seem to have a save.. ? XD

It says 3+?

 

[airjamy]

Yes this is starting to make sense to me. 1000 point armies being old blood and carno, tog and skink and some Saurus. Fun.

Although I still think our #1 unit has to be jungle swarms

Why? I guess they are not unstable anymore but that ain't a big deal right.

 

[airjamy]

It says 3+?

You are right, I was looking at its gear. Gotta say, basties are looking pretty good then! +1 ini might matter if you are charging and it's bound spell looks strong.