AoS Let's talk about Dracothion's Tail in 3.0

[PJetski]

If you have played any amount of AOS 3rd edition you know that we are quickly heading into a 3+ save MONSTER meta between all the ways to boost their save to 2+ and the additional victory points from Battle Tactics. It seems obvious that we should adopt those tactics and utilize our awesome Thunder Lizard subfaction to make a whole bunch of tough Monsters, right?

Why play STARBORNE instead of COALESCED in a MONSTER meta?

The monster meta will quickly evolve to incorporate numerous anti-monster units and tactics in order to counter 2+ monsters like Archaon, Kragnos, Mawkrushas, Stardrakes, etc. with mortal wounds and high rend attacks. We have good monsters but they don't have the same kind of battlefield presence of these giants. Seraphon monsters are 4+ save so the best they can save on is 3+. Even with Coalesced reducing weapon damage I think the monster hate people will bring will make many matchups far more difficult than they need to be if you rely entirely on our big dinosaurs.

Seraphon shooting, magic, mobility, and summoning are a good way to counter the monster meta and the anti-monster meta. For example, Geminids of Uhl-Gysh stop enemies from using All Out Defense in shooting. When paired with Starseer's Control Fate you are effectively giving enemies -2 to save rolls in shooting, opening the path to do some serious damage with Salamanders Rend-2 shots. Starborne armies utilize these kinds of focused fire tactics better since they tend to have stronger magic and mobility.

Army-wide Bravery 10 is a big deal. Salamander/Razordon hunting packs can really suffer from low bravery in Coalesced armies. Heroic Recovery is an unreliable source of healing in Coalesced armies, but can be very potent in Starborne. Bravery-based effects like FEC bat screams are becoming more popular because of Unleash Hell.

Finally, Starborne's kit allows more flexibility when it comes to scoring Battle Tactics. You can summon/teleport units in place to add additional firepower for the tactics that require killing. Teleporting is great for BTs like Aggressive Expansion and Savage Spearhead. You can also deny your opponent Battle Tactics because all the ones that require killing enemy units specify they must be from the "starting army".

Okay, but why play Dracothion's Tail over Fangs of Sotek?

Short answer: Fangs of Sotek is weaker in 3.0 while dropping in from reserve is more useful than ever

Long Answer: Skinks kinda suck now? The +1 max to save rolls makes them a 5+ at best so they will die in droves. Since they require a ton of command points and other resources to make them useful on offense it becomes very dangerous if you get hit first. Buffs and Reinforcements spent on Skink blocks have the opportunity cost of not being used on other units. The cost and risks to making Skinks good are very high right now and Fangs is only good if you're spamming Skinks.

Being able to keep our key units off the table is very useful against armies like Lumineth/Stormcast/Kharadron that could snipe them before you could get them in range. Re-rolls are a hot commodity now so the Ancient Knowledge trait to re-roll casting/unbinding/dispelling is more valuable than ever... or you can also skip taking it if you want to go with a Nimble Stegadon or Thickly Scaled Hide Carnosaur.


DT is a subfaction that will require a lot of playtesting to nail down the starting list because it's not obvious how you want to build a list to take advantage of these nuanced tactics. For now I'll leave the thread to discussion with some questions:

• How many Salamanders are enough?
• Is it worth running Kroak, or is he too many points and a regular Slann is good enough? Is it worth running both now? What would you do with that many command points?
• Are Troglodons worth bringing for the extra D3 summoning points?
• Do you want an Engine of the Gods with Amulet of Destiny, Cloak of Feathers, or Arcane Tome (for Vassal casting)?
• What allies are worth bringing? A Frostheart Phoenix can help improve durability. A Battlemage offers a great combo with a SKINK unit using Star-stone Staff to run & charge. Azyros to re-roll hit1 is really strong since they changed the Burning Head to no longer give re-rolls.
• What Endless Spells do you think are worth their points? Shackles with extra 6" setup range from Astrolith seem like an auto-include.

 

[Tyranitar]

If you have played any amount of AOS 3rd edition you know that we are quickly heading into a 3+ save MONSTER meta between all the ways to boost their save to 2+ and the additional victory points from Battle Tactics. It seems obvious that we should adopt those tactics and utilize our awesome Thunder Lizard subfaction to make a whole bunch of tough Monsters, right?

Why play STARBORNE instead of COALESCED in a MONSTER meta?

The monster meta will quickly evolve to incorporate numerous anti-monster units and tactics in order to counter 2+ monsters like Archaon, Kragnos, Mawkrushas, Stardrakes, etc. with mortal wounds and high rend attacks. We have good monsters but they don't have the same kind of battlefield presence of these giants. Seraphon monsters are 4+ save so the best they can save on is 3+. Even with Coalesced reducing weapon damage I think the monster hate people will bring will make many matchups far more difficult than they need to be if you rely entirely on our big dinosaurs.

Seraphon shooting, magic, mobility, and summoning are a good way to counter the monster meta and the anti-monster meta. For example, Geminids of Uhl-Gysh stop enemies from using All Out Defense in shooting. When paired with Starseer's Control Fate you are effectively giving enemies -2 to save rolls in shooting, opening the path to do some serious damage with Salamanders Rend-2 shots. Starborne armies utilize these kinds of focused fire tactics better since they tend to have stronger magic and mobility.

Army-wide Bravery 10 is a big deal. Salamander/Razordon hunting packs can really suffer from low bravery in Coalesced armies. Heroic Recovery is an unreliable source of healing in Coalesced armies, but can be very potent in Starborne. Bravery-based effects like FEC bat screams are becoming more popular because of Unleash Hell.

Finally, Starborne's kit allows more flexibility when it comes to scoring Battle Tactics. You can summon/teleport units in place to add additional firepower for the tactics that require killing. Teleporting is great for BTs like Aggressive Expansion and Savage Spearhead. You can also deny your opponent Battle Tactics because all the ones that require killing enemy units specify they must be from the "starting army".

Okay, but why play Dracothion's Tail over Fangs of Sotek?

Short answer: Fangs of Sotek is weaker in 3.0 while dropping in from reserve is more useful than ever

Long Answer: Skinks kinda suck now? The +1 max to save rolls makes them a 5+ at best so they will die in droves. Since they require a ton of command points and other resources to make them useful on offense it becomes very dangerous if you get hit first. Buffs and Reinforcements spent on Skink blocks have the opportunity cost of not being used on other units. The cost and risks to making Skinks good are very high right now and Fangs is only good if you're spamming Skinks.

Being able to keep our key units off the table is very useful against armies like Lumineth/Stormcast/Kharadron that could snipe them before you could get them in range. Re-rolls are a hot commodity now so the Ancient Knowledge trait to re-roll casting/unbinding/dispelling is more valuable than ever... or you can also skip taking it if you want to go with a Nimble Stegadon or Thickly Scaled Hide Carnosaur.


DT is a subfaction that will require a lot of playtesting to nail down the starting list because it's not obvious how you want to build a list to take advantage of these nuanced tactics. For now I'll leave the thread to discussion with some questions:

• How many Salamanders are enough?
• Is it worth running Kroak, or is he too many points and a regular Slann is good enough? Is it worth running both now? What would you do with that many command points?
• Are Troglodons worth bringing for the extra D3 summoning points?
• Do you want an Engine of the Gods with Amulet of Destiny, Cloak of Feathers, or Arcane Tome (for Vassal casting)?
• What allies are worth bringing? A Frostheart Phoenix can help improve durability. A Battlemage offers a great combo with a SKINK unit using Star-stone Staff to run & charge. Azyros to re-roll hit1 is really strong since they changed the Burning Head to no longer give re-rolls.
• What Endless Spells do you think are worth their points? Shackles with extra 6" setup range from Astrolith seem like an auto-include.

Nice post with some in-depth thoughts, I like it and I agree with much of what you said. I've played a couple games of 3.0 now so I'm certainly no expert but I've made some observations. I've played 1 game with DT, 2 games with TL, and 1 game as nurgle vs TL (My buddy and I swapped armies for some fun).

My DT list was kroak and slann, Troglodon, AB, Eternity Warden with amulet of destiny, 3x10 skinks, 2x2 sallies, and cogs.

My TL list is slann, steg chief w/ cloak, EotG w/ amulet, starseer, AB, priest, 1x basti with solarbeam, 2x10 skins, 2x5 saurus knights, 5x saurus guard, and purple sun.

The DT list felt better from a "tuning" standpoint, I'm not super happy with the TL list yet. It's not terrible but doesn't feel quite right, might look into cutting the skinks for a unit of chamos, or some other tweak. But overall, here's some thoughts. The Kroak package in my DT list is very, very expensive but it is a solid core. Without getting more games in it would be hard to say whether kroak is worth it or if a normal slann would suffice because we save a ton of points not taking a trog. BUT, the list has 5d3 ccp per turn which is huge. I summoned a salamander per turn. I think if the trog has a place, it's certainly in starborne because the extra ccp is quite valuable, and with cogs you still get a Skink lore spell which is great. I do also like that everything in the list is relatively self sufficient, whereas as you commented on, skinks require a lot of buffs and as they lose models or the heroes get sniped they get useless pretty quickly. I don't see a point in a trog without kroak so it'll just require getting games in, hopefully as a community we can figure it out. I think 4 sallies is prob fine since we can summon more. I did find myself with a bit too many CP in the DT list, but I didn't have a need for kroak or the slanns CA in that matchup specifically.

As for thoughts on why play starborne over TL, I think it'll largely end up being meta dependant tbh. I do think TL certainly got better with the 3.0 changes, but summoning is way more valuable since the ccp table didn't change but points went up across the board for all armies so the summoning is even higher impact than it was before. Teleporting is obviously still very strong for battle tactics and mobility, and leadership 10 is massive. The bravery 5 and 6 on the steg heroes is rough for heroic recovery in Coalesced. In my TL list I liked the cloak on the chief for long range charges and the amulet on the engine, which would be even tankier in starborne with reliable heroic recovery.

As for allies and endless spells, I just can't see anything being better than gotrek at this point until GW increases his points back, he's just crazy. For endless spells, lifeswarm, geminids, burning head, shackles, and purple sun all seem viable to me. Purple sun is especially nice for us because we always keep control of it, and being a casting value of 8 is great because we have enough bonuses to still cast it consistently while an opponent hitting a 9 to dispel is rough for most armies. One other thing I've been bouncing around is actually running Lauchon with Kroak. Teleport him into position during the hero phase to bomb the opponent with celestial deliverance, then summon a Skink screen or teleport a screen to protect him at the end of the movement phase. Or summon the screen and teleport the astrolith to him for the following turn. Could be an interesting little strategy that I want to test.

 

[ChameleonGnom]

One other thing I've been bouncing around is actually running Lauchon with Kroak. Teleport him into position during the hero phase to bomb the opponent with celestial deliverance, then summon a Skink screen or teleport a screen to protect him at the end of the movement phase. Or summon the screen and teleport the astrolith to him for the following turn. Could be an interesting little strategy that I want to test.

I have been thinking about the same. But I discoverd 2 problems. 1st Kroak is on an 80mm base and Lauchon requires the wizzard to be wholy within 3 inch wich is 76.2mm. 2nd it is a predatory endless spell, it moves at the end of hero phase. no more spellcasting afterwards.

 

[Tyranitar]

I have been thinking about the same. But I discoverd 2 problems. 1st Kroak is on an 80mm base and Lauchon requires the wizzard to be wholy within 3 inch wich is 76.2mm. 2nd it is a predatory endless spell, it moves at the end of hero phase. no more spellcasting afterwards.

Ah, thank you! One less thing to test out at least

 

[PJetski]

Here's my first draft of a DT list using Kroak and double Warlord battalion

Warlord #1

• Kroak
• Starseer - Command Trait: Master of Magic (Re-roll 1 cast/unbind/dispel per hero phase), Bind Endless Spell
• Astrolith Bearer -Godbeast Pendant (Revive on 4+)
• 10x Skinks

Warlord #2

• Engine of the Gods - Amulet of Destiny (5+ ward)
• Skink Priest - Arcane Tome (Hand of Glory), Curse
• Skink Starpriest - Tide of Serpents
• 10x Skinks

Hunters of the Heartland

• 2x Razordons
• 2x Salamanders
• 10x Skinks

Misc.

• Shackles
• Geminids
• Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery (keep a WIZARD alive)
• Triumph: Inspired
• Extra Command Points: 2

2000/2000

Razordons are much better than they were in 2nd ed, and they're a steal at 190 for 2. With Skinks falling out of favour we need new units to soak up with all our great SKINK buffs. You can give them run/shoot/charge, +1 save, +1 hit, reroll hit1, and the Serpent Staff. Offensively you can shoot for 4d6, then charge (3d6" with Starseer nearby) in for another 2d6, then have really good melee attacks. Defensively they have their own Overwatch and Unleash Hell - all the buffs you give them last through enemy turns so these shots can be quite potent.

With Geminids shutting down All Out Defense, and Starseer casting Control Fate you can tear through large single targets with focused fire, and summon more Salamanders as the game goes along.

Shackles with +6" setup range is tremendous.

I want to run a Lifeswarm but Kroak doesn't really make any use of it and there is still some healing with the Engine and Heroic Recovery.

I am concerned about running Kroak without Guard on the table (though they can be summoned in). With good positioning I can deploy him far back to outrange Lumineth and KO deep strike shooting, but Stormcast teleport/scions would be a problem. Finest Hour + All Out Defense and a 6+ ward (Astrolith) could be enough to keep him alive through that first turn.

I'm running Bind Endless Spell because there seems to be a lot of spells worth stealing right now.


If Mystical Unforging is cast on a HERO with an Amulet of Destiny, do you break the artefact before or after you deal D3 mortal wounds? Based on the wording, I think it's before.

 

[Lambs and Lions]

I think it really comes down to what battle line you are taking. If you are taking skink battleline parting shot is just too good to pass up. If you are taking a knights the there is no reason to take fangs. If you are taking stegadons well you have to be thunder lizards.

It's not so much that skinks are bad it's they are no longer so much better than our other options.

I think all three factions are viable and strong.

 

[Tyranitar]

I think it really comes down to what battle line you are taking. If you are taking skink battleline parting shot is just too good to pass up. If you are taking a knights the there is no reason to take fangs. If you are taking stegadons well you have to be thunder lizards.

It's not so much that skinks are bad it's they are no longer so much better than our other options.

I think all three factions are viable and strong.

I agree here, I think this list would be better as FoS. Just need to find a way to combine the skinks into a unit of 30. I'm still not liking razordons either, salamanders take buffs just fine and I just can't get behind random attacks

 

[PJetski]

I think it really comes down to what battle line you are taking. If you are taking skink battleline parting shot is just too good to pass up. If you are taking a knights the there is no reason to take fangs. If you are taking stegadons well you have to be thunder lizards.

It's not so much that skinks are bad it's they are no longer so much better than our other options.

I think all three factions are viable and strong.

Parting Shot doesn't do much for a unit of 10 Skinks. I would only play FOS if I was running at least one 30x Skinks blob. However, Skink blobs need a lot of buffs to be viable and those buffs cost a lot of points (Starpriest) and/or can't be used more than once per turn because of the limit on command abilities. You start to run into significant diminishing returns if you bring more than one big SKINK unit that wants to be buffed.

Skinks are also very bad defensively, with a 6+ save characteristic they won't last more than a single turn, usually not more than a single phase. They are also a horde unit which are still vulnerable to a great number of anti-horde spells.

If you want to play Starborne but not rely on fragile Skink blobs then I think DT is the way to go. There is a lot of value in protecting key pieces from being sniped by deploying them in reserve, like Salamanders with their terrible 5+ save.

I agree here, I think this list would be better as FoS. Just need to find a way to combine the skinks into a unit of 30. I'm still not liking razordons either, salamanders take buffs just fine and I just can't get behind random attacks

Don't sleep on them. Razordons have more range (useful for shooting behind front lines), a better save (more important than it seems), can benefit from Curse, get more benefit from Venom Staff, and can do a lot of damage in both charge phases (where your opponent can't use All Out Defense). Don't forget that they have the same melee profile (outside of Coalesced) and Razordons cost 50 less points for a reinforced squad.
I would always summon Salamanders but Razordons are a good unit to include in the list when you don't have many other SKINK units to buff.

 

[Tyranitar]

Parting Shot doesn't do much for a unit of 10 Skinks. I would only play FOS if I was running at least one 30x Skinks blob. However, Skink blobs need a lot of buffs to be viable and those buffs cost a lot of points (Starpriest) and/or can't be used more than once per turn because of the limit on command abilities. You start to run into significant diminishing returns if you bring more than one big SKINK unit that wants to be buffed.

Skinks are also very bad defensively, with a 6+ save characteristic they won't last more than a single turn, usually not more than a single phase. They are also a horde unit which are still vulnerable to a great number of anti-horde spells.

If you want to play Starborne but not rely on fragile Skink blobs then I think DT is the way to go. There is a lot of value in protecting key pieces from being sniped by deploying them in reserve, like Salamanders with their terrible 5+ save.


Don't sleep on them. Razordons have more range (useful for shooting behind front lines), a better save (more important than it seems), can benefit from Curse, get more benefit from Venom Staff, and can do a lot of damage in both charge phases (where your opponent can't use All Out Defense). Don't forget that they have the same melee profile (outside of Coalesced) and Razordons cost 50 less points for a reinforced squad.
I would always summon Salamanders but Razordons are a good unit to include in the list when you don't have many other SKINK units to buff.

They have the same save, but the rest is true. However, would it be better just not taking the starpriest since he's really just going to buff the razordons, and spend those points elsewhere? I'm not sure, it's worth testing both ways

 

[PJetski]

Ive been playing them with a 5+ save like they had before the 2.0 battletome...
I like the starpriest -1 hit spell and he is another wizard for vassal casting. If i replaced him with anything but another subcommander I would have to cut the second warlord battalion and lose the arcane tome.

 

[Tilorn91]

I'm very interested in running a list as posted a bit above, but I worry that it simply doesn't deal damage. Kroak does his thing, Salamanders and Razordons too, but it is far from a good output required versus most armies. There are no 5 buffed knights to do damage, no blocks of warriors (regardless of how bad they are now), or a blob of skinks buffed up. No Carno nor Steg, am I underestimating the tactical advantage teleporting has, together with the Starseer (That I literally never used)?

A disclaimer too, I always play KC lists, so I'm used to rather obvious combos of a Carno eating some MSU's while my knights do the rest.

 

[Zhalfirim]

I'm very interested in running a list as posted a bit above, but I worry that it simply doesn't deal damage. Kroak does his thing, Salamanders and Razordons too, but it is far from a good output required versus most armies. There are no 5 buffed knights to do damage, no blocks of warriors (regardless of how bad they are now), or a blob of skinks buffed up. No Carno nor Steg, am I underestimating the tactical advantage teleporting has, together with the Starseer (That I literally never used)?

A disclaimer too, I always play KC lists, so I'm used to rather obvious combos of a Carno eating some MSU's while my knights do the rest.

To be honest, I don't think there are many builds in Seraphon, that would do enough damage for the defensive units other armies can field with 2+/3+ ignore some rend. We just don't have the rend or the weight of dice on units others than Salamanders. So I think focusing on Salamanders for output is the best way, but I would definitely play 4 of them and summon more throughout the game. The rest of the list then can be about board control and spell support.

The teleporting is really awesome with the missions and battle tactics in this editions. Also many armies are focused on few blocks of units and are hard pressed to keep their back objectives occupied, especially if you teleport 2 salamanders to that objective a turn before.

 

[PJetski]

The goal isn't to cripple your opponent on turn 1 through damage, but rather zone control with summoning, teleports, shackles, etc. You need to slow your enemy down and grind them out over 5 rounds. This isn't AOS 2.0 where you have to cut through 2x20 Hearthguard Berzerkers - the 3+ monster meta doesn't need mass damage; scalpel precision damage through focused fire is sufficient.

With Razordons, Salamanders, and Kroak focusing their fire on top of Control Fate (-1 save) and Geminids blocking AOD, I think this list would have the damage to take down a key target every turn. Keep in mind that you will be adding more Salamanders to your army as the battle goes on.

Score 5-6 points per round and deny your opponent from doing the same.

 

[Jason839]

I feel like something like this is probably a good starting point for DT in 3.0


Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Dracothion's Tail
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Slann Starmaster (265) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Ancient Knowledge
- Artefact: Godbeast Pendant
- Ancient Knowledge Spell: Celestial Apotheosis
Lord Kroak (430) in Battle Regiment
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (150) in Battle Regiment
10 x Skinks (75) in Battle Regiment
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (75) in Battle Regiment
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
5 x Saurus Guard (115) in Battle Regiment
5 x Saurus Guard (115) in Battle Regiment
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
Chronomantic Cogs (45)
Battle Regiment
Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

 

[Tav]

Dracos tail is great with sallies for general power of a list, but to go for the big point wins it may not be enough.

I am finding thunder lizard the better option, a bastiladon with the right support is one of the best pieces in the game now as it has a great save and is a shooting monster.

Being a shooting monster means you can get slay the warlord, broken ranks and bring it down with bonus points without having to risk the monster itself and give away any points.

Having a least 1 monster is important also to gain tactics such as monstrous takeover.
Reducing damage by 1 also helps massively against most of threats about in the meta apart from thing like blood stalkers which are often vulnerable to said bastiladon.

 

[Jason839]

Dracos tail is great with sallies for general power of a list, but to go for the big point wins it may not be enough.

I am finding thunder lizard the better option, a bastiladon with the right support is one of the best pieces in the game now as it has a great save and is a shooting monster.

Being a shooting monster means you can get slay the warlord, broken ranks and bring it down with bonus points without having to risk the monster itself and give away any points.

Having a least 1 monster is important also to gain tactics such as monstrous takeover.
Reducing damage by 1 also helps massively against most of threats about in the meta apart from thing like blood stalkers which are often vulnerable to said bastiladon.

I want to like TL so badly, but i cant see it winning a 5 round event. You have to give up so many strengths of the army to play it. And with the nerf to its ca, it just doesnt feel worth it.

 

[Tav]

I want to like TL so badly, but i cant see it winning a 5 round event. You have to give up so many strengths of the army to play it. And with the nerf to its ca, it just doesnt feel worth it.

Im playing in a 6 round tts event with my thunder lizards, 2-0 so far and we will see how we go

 

[Jason839]

Im playing in a 6 round tts event with my thunder lizards, 2-0 so far and we will see how we go

Thats awesome! all the luck to you. let us know how it goes!

 

[PJetski]

I want to like TL so badly, but i cant see it winning a 5 round event. You have to give up so many strengths of the army to play it. And with the nerf to its ca, it just doesnt feel worth it.

I think TL can go 5-0 but it will have a lot of risky matchups because 4+ monsters arent good enough in a meta meant to counter 3+ monsters. It also lacks mobility without investing heavily in chameleon skinks, which comes at the cost of more MONSTERs or their required support heroes.
Seraphon have good spell casting but it requires a lot of points to make it consistent.

If Seraphon got a ~10% cost reduction then TL would be able to slot in two squads of Chameleons. Right now it feels like you always end up spreading yourself too thin if you try to cover all your weaknesses.

DT gives up the MONSTER focus but what you gain in summoning and mobility is very valuable.

 

[Tilorn91]

Sadly, I don't have the models for a good TL list, I got one Carno, one Steg, one Basti, one Dread Saurian. So I am left with my favorite KC lists, Carno, MSU of knights, priest, starpriest, Kroak/Slann, few screens of skinks and a few endless spells.

I am looking to branch out into the mentioned DT list in the first few posts, or the one posted later, as I find that my win rate is struggling. Now, if I am reading summoning correct, on average we are getting a salamander every 2 turns, so it is not that good in my eyes or am I missing something? In my local meta, I run into Hearthguards, Blood Stalkers, Gargants (Kragnos), hero based Gravelords, and standard pink horror Tzeentch. Safe to say, my KC loses often, and I'd like to test DT.

The issue I'm seeing is that two salamanders, a few spells, and one teleport is quite the cost to pay for the better damage my usual lists do, though I admit I know nothing of the Starborne playstyle so I am assuming I'm missing many tricks, and that I'm simply oblivious to the benefits of such a style. Also, I am 100% sure I'll fail many games 'til I learn how to play such lists.

I guess my question is this: Are 2 salamanders, 2 razordons, some Kroak spells, maybe a lucky EotG proc enough to win games?