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Star Trek vs. Star Wars (and a collection of memes)

Star Trek or Star Wars; which do you like better?

  • Star Trek

    Votes: 19 23.8%

  • Star Wars

    Votes: 61 76.3%
  • Total voters
    80
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
That was a silly scene, one of many scenes in Episode V that I think are stupid - surely the Empire would have developed countermeasures for such a simple tactic ages ago, or at least developed walkers that were less top-heavy?
Click to expand...

As for the contrivances in classic Star Wars, this isn't that big of a deal. ATATs were designed for shock and awe, not for true battle. The Empire built them to cow the populace not to fight conventional wars. One of the Empire's weaknesses was that they favored appearance over substance. The Rebellion existed for about 20 years before it grew strong enough that the Empire had to take it seriously. In the old Expanded Universe, companies that produced their war materials were often hampered by corruption and inefficiency (which is actually realistic in totalitarian regimes.)

ATATs were top heavy and inefficient because they didn't need to be better.

I really like the ATMTs (All Terrain Mountain Transports). These were spider walkers that basically correct all the flaws of the ATATs and put the firepower on a smaller more mobile package that could climb up vertical walls. By the time they developed ATMTs, the New Republic was bigger than any single Imperial faction thus requiring the Empire to be able to do more with less.
 
Scalenex said:
As for the contrivances in classic Star Wars, this isn't that big of a deal. ATATs were designed for shock and awe, not for true battle. The Empire built them to cow the populace not to fight conventional wars. One of the Empire's weaknesses was that they favored appearance over substance. The Rebellion existed for about 20 years before it grew strong enough that the Empire had to take it seriously. In the old Expanded Universe, companies that produced their war materials were often hampered by corruption and inefficiency (which is actually realistic in totalitarian regimes.)

ATATs were top heavy and inefficient because they didn't need to be better.

I really like the ATMTs (All Terrain Mountain Transports). These were spider walkers that basically correct all the flaws of the ATATs and put the firepower on a smaller more mobile package that could climb up vertical walls. By the time they developed ATMTs, the New Republic was bigger than any single Imperial faction thus requiring the Empire to be able to do more with less.
Click to expand...

And really, the physics of that shouldn't have worked anyway. Having a tether line on a vehicle like that, it should either have snapped the tether at some point, or the action of the tether on the ship should have mucked up the flight capabilities. Seriously, has anyone tried this IRL? I suspect it would not work well...
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
That was a silly scene, one of many scenes in Episode V that I think are stupid - surely the Empire would have developed countermeasures for such a simple tactic ages ago, or at least developed walkers that were less top-heavy?
Click to expand...
Scalenex said:
As for the contrivances in classic Star Wars, this isn't that big of a deal. ATATs were designed for shock and awe, not for true battle. The Empire built them to cow the populace not to fight conventional wars. One of the Empire's weaknesses was that they favored appearance over substance. The Rebellion existed for about 20 years before it grew strong enough that the Empire had to take it seriously. In the old Expanded Universe, companies that produced their war materials were often hampered by corruption and inefficiency (which is actually realistic in totalitarian regimes.)

ATATs were top heavy and inefficient because they didn't need to be better.

I really like the ATMTs (All Terrain Mountain Transports). These were spider walkers that basically correct all the flaws of the ATATs and put the firepower on a smaller more mobile package that could climb up vertical walls. By the time they developed ATMTs, the New Republic was bigger than any single Imperial faction thus requiring the Empire to be able to do more with less.
Click to expand...
Tk'ya'pyk said:
And really, the physics of that shouldn't have worked anyway. Having a tether line on a vehicle like that, it should either have snapped the tether at some point, or the action of the tether on the ship should have mucked up the flight capabilities. Seriously, has anyone tried this IRL? I suspect it would not work well...
Click to expand...
I love how this is a major issue for us in a universe where magic space monks with laser swords move objects with their mind! :p
 
Scalenex said:
As for the contrivances in classic Star Wars, this isn't that big of a deal. ATATs were designed for shock and awe, not for true battle. The Empire built them to cow the populace not to fight conventional wars.
Click to expand...

Then surely they should have used something better adapted for combat situations given they knew they were going to be entering a pitched battle? But then, that would have made it to easy for them I imagine.

Scalenex said:
I really like the ATMTs (All Terrain Mountain Transports). These were spider walkers that basically correct all the flaws of the ATATs and put the firepower on a smaller more mobile package that could climb up vertical walls. By the time they developed ATMTs, the New Republic was bigger than any single Imperial faction thus requiring the Empire to be able to do more with less.
Click to expand...

I know quite a lot about Imperial Walker types from Titan Books’ Imperial Handbook, but I had to look up this one:
450


That one does look cool, and harks back to the Spider Droids used by the Separatists.

Why didn’t they use those instead? Given that they wanted the Empire to win in Episode V, they could have used these to give the Empire a much more devastating victory on Hoth than the one they actually got, which is almost a con really given so many of the Rebels survive and they subsequently lose so many ships looking for the Millennium Falcon. But then, if the Empire won too easily it might make it too scary for the kiddies - they have to include some silly escapist coincidences to keep everyone’s favourite characters alive.

So many so-called fans say Empire is the darkest film of the franchise, but that is absolute tosh - at the very least Episode III and Rogue One are certainly darker, and from a personal opinion I would say Episode II also has a darker outcome. If they had really wanted to make Episode V dark, they could have done a lot more to really give the Empire a hammerblow victory. What we’ve discussed above is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Why didn’t they use those instead? Given that they wanted the Empire to win in Episode V, they could have used these to give the Empire a much more devastating victory on Hoth than the one they actually got, which is almost a con really given so many of the Rebels survive and they subsequently lose so many ships looking for the Millennium Falcon. But then, if the Empire won too easily it might make it too scary for the kiddies - they have to include some silly escapist coincidences to keep everyone’s favourite characters alive.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, the novels to Episode 4 through 6 were written AFTER the movies came out. A rarity.

The novels were bloodier than the movies.

In the movie, due to the budget limitations you never saw more than 4 walkers at a time. From the novel I got the impression that there were about 100 walkers and a 50 Rebel snowspeeders. The Rebels also managed to take down a couple walkers with concentrated artillery fire before all their artillery was destroyed. A lot of Rebels died delaying the Walkers.

The Rebels copied Luke's tactic to trip dozens of walkers but they fell to superior numbers. And not every walker that tripped blew up. A lot of them were just stuck, but everyone on board survived.

I'm not sure if this is the line exactly but an officer reported to Vader after Hoth.

"Twenty-seven Rebel ships destroyed Lord Vader. We do not know exactly how many got away." It was noted on the Rebel side that all the bulk transports got away. Most of the casualties were towards the end of the evacuation when they were fleeing in a haphazard fashion is smaller ships without escorts or artillery support.

In the movie there were zero Rebel ships destroyed.

In the novel of Return of the Jedi, thousands of Ewoks died. Not one like in the film.

But it really doesn't matter. We are talking about space wizards with laser swords that can reflect lasers back at people or as Darths and Droids calls them, Cheese Monks.

If I really want to tear apart a movie, I would tear apart the "all is well that ends well" end of Infinity War. They don't really address that millions of lives would not be coming back.

A lot of planes would have crashed because of the Thanos Snap. The Reverse snap would not bring these dead people back. The reverse snapped people would come back mid air and their bodies would rain down on the world. Planes, trains, cars, and boats would crash as their drivers disappear.

A lot of people would disappear while cooking or working with fire. Half of the firefighters and dispatchers are gone so there would be tons of death by fire that the reverse snap will not fix.

A lot of children would be left orphans. Some babies left untended would die.

A lot of people would have committed suicide.

A lot of infrastructure would be tested as skilled labor managing hospitals, power plants, transportation grids, etc would be cut in half. Governments and militaries would lose half their commanders. Chaos would reign. Rioting would commence.

A lot of people who survive would remarry or adopt orphans. When their missing family members come back things would be hugely awkward.

I liked Spiderman Far From Home on the whole, but they treated the Thanos snap as being a moderate inconvenience and not a devastating loss of life.
 
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