AoS NEW *rumor*

[Aginor]

Well, yeah. Everything that fits into the Great Plan.
(Vol.2 because the first one didn't end so well).

But I still think that in most cases the Slann would probably find a better way than supporting any Chaos forces.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

Ironically we should even be able to ally with chaos because of this if for whatever reason the slann decided that it'd be better for this particular chaos warlord to win this particular battle. For example, a tzeentchian warlord is attacking a sigmarite force. If he wins he gets an artifact that allows him to defeat a khornate warlord. And in between the assault on the sigmarite force and the following battle with the khornate army the tzeentchian warlord will be weakened enough to be taken down easily. However, the sigmarites are going to be able to fend of the tzeentchian force. A slann should then help the tzeentchian force succeed and slaughter the stormcast as ultimatly it'd allow him to bring down 2 powerfull chaos warlords, instead of one. And ultimatly we don't care about the stormcast, so they'l just be necesary sacrifices.

Interesting. By that logic we should be bale to ally with everyone

 

[The17thYak]

I am of the same mind as Canas on this, and from a fluff perspective I would imagine that we should be able to be taken as allies by any army at all but also unable to have any allies of our own. While I know that is far fetched and very limiting game play wise I feel that it would make sense in the lore, where we turn up seemingly randomly to help out one side for some unfathomable reason before disappearing again, conversely no one would be able to understand the reason we are doing anything so would be unlikely just to tag along and help.

 

[Val Muna]

Ironically we should even be able to ally with chaos because of this if for whatever reason the slann decided that it'd be better for this particular chaos warlord to win this particular battle. For example, a tzeentchian warlord is attacking a sigmarite force. If he wins he gets an artifact that allows him to defeat a khornate warlord. And in between the assault on the sigmarite force and the following battle with the khornate army the tzeentchian warlord will be weakened enough to be taken down easily. However, the sigmarites are going to be able to fend of the tzeentchian force. A slann should then help the tzeentchian force succeed and slaughter the stormcast as ultimatly it'd allow him to bring down 2 powerfull chaos warlords, instead of one. And ultimatly we don't care about the stormcast, so they'l just be necesary sacrifices.

or, ya know, maybe just send a letter to the Sigs and let em know what you're thinking

i think a lot of people are having "head canon" issues witht he structure of the GAs, or atleast with Order. Most of the others make more cohesive sense. Thus the joke in the comic. But to be honest i wouldn't think too hard about it. To me the GAs are more like "Organizational Bucket A" and "Organizational Bucket B, C, and D" than anything really fluffy. Since literally any army can fight any other army, and there is more than enough "lore" in place to support these conflicts. You can rather think of it as:

Order wants the material existence of the realms in place.

Chaos wants them torn from reality and subjugated,

Death wants them all dead, and under the control of Nagash,

and Destruction: Jus' wanna have fun.

And that is about the extent of the cohesion.

 

[Canas]

or, ya know, maybe just send a letter to the Sigs and let em know what you're thinking

What, and skip out on an oppertunity to murder some sigmarines? What would @NIGHTBRINGER say of such a ridiculous suggestion. I thought everyone would jump at the oppertunity

Anyway, then imagine the Tzeentchian warlord gets suspicious if the Sigmarites don't fight for real. So without a pile of dead sigmarites he won't take the artifact.

i think a lot of people are having "head canon" issues witht he structure of the GAs, or atleast with Order. Most of the others make more cohesive sense. Thus the joke in the comic. But to be honest i wouldn't think too hard about it. To me the GAs are more like "Organizational Bucket A" and "Organizational Bucket B, C, and D" than anything really fluffy. Since literally any army can fight any other army, and there is more than enough "lore" in place to support these conflicts. You can rather think of it as:

Order wants the material existence of the realms in place.

Chaos wants them torn from reality and subjugated,

Death wants them all dead, and under the control of Nagash,

and Destruction: Jus' wanna have fun.

And that is about the extent of the cohesion.

They worked reasonably well untill they introduced the concept of allies in matched play and the corresponding fluff as to why certain factions would (or wouldn't) ally. Before that it was indeed what you described.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

or, ya know, maybe just send a letter to the Sigs and let em know what you're thinking

i think a lot of people are having "head canon" issues witht he structure of the GAs, or atleast with Order. Most of the others make more cohesive sense. Thus the joke in the comic. But to be honest i wouldn't think too hard about it. To me the GAs are more like "Organizational Bucket A" and "Organizational Bucket B, C, and D" than anything really fluffy. Since literally any army can fight any other army, and there is more than enough "lore" in place to support these conflicts. You can rather think of it as:

Order wants the material existence of the realms in place.

Chaos wants them torn from reality and subjugated,

Death wants them all dead, and under the control of Nagash,

and Destruction: Jus' wanna have fun.

And that is about the extent of the cohesion.

if destruction just wan't to have fun DoK should be a part of destruction they fit better there

 

[Val Muna]

if destruction just wan't to have fun DoK should be a part of destruction they fit better there

Honestly, yeah. I guess Destruction's one other cohesive attribute is the following of Gork and Mork.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Honestly, yeah. I guess Destruction's one other cohesive attribute is the following of Gork and Mork.

if you ignore ogars they follow the great maw and the storm respectively so 2/5th of them.

 

[Val Muna]

if you ignore ogars they follow the great maw and the storm respectively so 2/5th of them.

I was pretty sure in the lore that the forces ogors worship are but manifestations of gork and mork, or so says 2+tough

 

[Erta Wanderer]

question i just got a astrolith bearer and it came in a box labeled starglyph bearer anyone know what that's all about?

 

[DinoJon]

So that's been going on for as long as I remember for retail packaging, I don't know why there is a disparity on the names but its an ongoing thing.

 

[Canas]

question i just got a astrolith bearer and it came in a box labeled starglyph bearer anyone know what that's all about?

Was it called starglyph bearer in WHFB at some point? A lot of these are just their old names and they never bothered updating things like boxes.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Was it called starglyph bearer in WHFB at some point? A lot of these are just their old names and they never bothered updating things like boxes.

i have no idea i joined the mighty seraphon after the world fell. my friend that did have WHFB experience didn't know either

 

[little-myth]

I flicked through all my books and in the models section it's mentioned as a Scar-Veteran Battle Standard Bearer.

 

[Audvin]

The package said Star-glyph a couple of years ago when I bought my astro so this is nothing new.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Watching how they handle CoS will be illuminating, since you have to have mastery over he stars themselves to divinate any of GW's plans for us poor bastards; at this point we may as well look for patterns in the aether.

Regarding CoS - the wording was a bit of a Rorschach test - "It's your Last Chance to Buy these classic Aelf, Duardin and Free Peoples models! If you've always dreamed of owning these miniatures, this is your final opportunity to secure yours – they're going fast and not coming back." Could mean that the model is simply gone, get it now for old-times sake (with the implication that if it had rules, expect a new model) or it could mean that unit is gone for good. If you have one: play it, if not: you're out of luck. In either case, that wording doesn't really allow for a "repackage with rounds" type interpretation.

But I can't help but feel like CoS is more of a hospice for old-worlders than it is a new life.

Cities of Sigmar is the worst possible thing GW could have done - it's pretty much Empire with Dwarf and Elf guest stars, and it's almost certainly a sign that GW are trying to get rid of the original Dwarf and Elf models. I'm pretty sure that the units will be gone for good and will no longer be usable in the game except with Warhammer Legends rules for Open and Narrative Play. If GW had actually cared for these factions and their fans, they would have made the time and effort to give each of them their own full Battletome and some extra models to replace the ones they lost in the initial transition from Fantasy to AoS, rather than culling them and shoehorning the few survivors into the nonsensical Empire/Dark Elf alliance they've decided to actually release.

My mind sorted and categorized the development of armies in general (in my last post), there are four rough buckets of AoS 2.0 armies: (1)Totally new to AoS (eg SCE, Nighthaunts, IdK) (2) Re-imagined from the ground up (eg Fyreslayers, Orruks), (3) Expanded on a niche (DoK, Chaos Gods {Nurgle etc}), (4) Freshed-up (GsG, LoN). Oh and (5): Dead. CoS appears to be following (3). Depending on what we see next, we will know if they also head in the (4) direction or the (5) direction. If they get new sculpts for some of the stuff they cut, then I will let out a sigh of relief.

Nighthaunt are based upon the Cairn Wraith, the old Black Coach and the End Times Spirit Hosts, while Bonesplitterz simply contain all the Savage Orc models, so they're more expanded on a niche than brand new and reimagined respectively. Fyreslayers were based on Fantasy concepts ( the old Slayers) so they would be re-imagined, but Ironjawz simply expanded upon the Black Orcs like DoK expanded on Witch Elves, so I would say they are more freshed-up. Cities of Sigmar doesn't fit into any of these categories - it's just a soulless and lazy reinterpretation of Empire with a few random Elves and Dwarfs remaining (even though both those races are obviously superior and wouldn't be living like refugees).

I also think that it is important to make the distinction between a model and a unit when looking at the LCTB models.
The models are going away, but they didn't say the units are going away.
Perhaps they have new sculpts, and especially the old Empire models can use those.
For me it was always weird to see them around, with stuff like their old Imperial insignia and "Karl Franz" (a person not mentioned in the lore at all AFAIK) written all over them.
So they might just get new models fitting the aesthetic of the game.

Honestly that would be great - if they would make them generic 15th Century blokes or even reimagine them to be a cross of Empire and Bretonnia, it would already help the faction fit better (especially if they finally gave them human-looking infantry models for once). However, GW have clearly put Empire soldiers on the cover so it looks very unlikely.

if destruction just wan't to have fun DoK should be a part of destruction they fit better there

Certainly makes sense, but DoK who prefer to stab their enemies repeatedly with stiletto blades wouldn't want to associate themselves with hulking, simple-minded Orcs who just bash their enemies' heads in. To be honest, DoK fit best into Chaos, because they're evil, throat-slitting murderesses that lurk in the seedy parts of Order cities - the only thing stopping them is their hatred of Slaanesh. Considering that Khorne is the arch-enemy of Slaanesh, though, DoK could actually fit well as a Khorne sect in Grand Alliance Chaos, as both just want to spill loads and loads of blood and both hate Slaanesh's guts. Like Plague Monks have the Nurgle trait as well as Skaven and Pestilens traits, DoK units should have the Khorne trait as well as the traits they already have, and to represent their hatred of Slaanesh they should have extra anti-Slaanesh abilities and shouldn't be able to ally with Hedonites.

 

[Aginor]

Cities of Sigmar is the worst possible thing GW could have done - it's pretty much Empire with Dwarf and Elf guest stars, and it's almost certainly a sign that GW are trying to get rid of the original Dwarf and Elf models. I'm pretty sure that the units will be gone for good and will no longer be usable in the game except with Warhammer Legends rules for Open and Narrative Play. If GW had actually cared for these factions and their fans, they would have made the time and effort to give each of them their own full Battletome and some extra models to replace the ones they lost in the initial transition from Fantasy to AoS, rather than culling them and shoehorning the few survivors into the nonsensical Empire/Dark Elf alliance they've decided to actually release.



Nighthaunt are based upon the Cairn Wraith, the old Black Coach and the End Times Spirit Hosts, while Bonesplitterz simply contain all the Savage Orc models, so they're more expanded on a niche than brand new and reimagined respectively. Fyreslayers were based on Fantasy concepts ( the old Slayers) so they would be re-imagined, but Ironjawz simply expanded upon the Black Orcs like DoK expanded on Witch Elves, so I would say they are more freshed-up. Cities of Sigmar doesn't fit into any of these categories - it's just a soulless and lazy reinterpretation of Empire with a few random Elves and Dwarfs remaining (even though both those races are obviously superior and wouldn't be living like refugees).



Honestly that would be great - if they would make them generic 15th Century blokes or even reimagine them to be a cross of Empire and Bretonnia, it would already help the faction fit better (especially if they finally gave them human-looking infantry models for once). However, GW have clearly put Empire soldiers on the cover so it looks very unlikely.



Certainly makes sense, but DoK who prefer to stab their enemies repeatedly with stiletto blades wouldn't want to associate themselves with hulking, simple-minded Orcs who just bash their enemies' heads in. To be honest, DoK fit best into Chaos, because they're evil, throat-slitting murderesses that lurk in the seedy parts of Order cities - the only thing stopping them is their hatred of Slaanesh. Considering that Khorne is the arch-enemy of Slaanesh, though, DoK could actually fit well as a Khorne sect in Grand Alliance Chaos, as both just want to spill loads and loads of blood and both hate Slaanesh's guts. Like Plague Monks have the Nurgle trait as well as Skaven and Pestilens traits, DoK units should have the Khorne trait as well as the traits they already have, and to represent their hatred of Slaanesh they should have extra anti-Slaanesh abilities and shouldn't be able to ally with Hedonites.

I kinda liked the idea (IIRC that was something that really happened in WHFB) that a faction thinks they worship their local God of Murder or something, and in reality it is Khorne so they are Chaos Worshippers even though they would disagree with anyone claiming that.

 

[Xuil]

As a bit of an aside, for a faction with feathers on nearly literally every model, we still don’t have a feathered unit.
Whatever shed the feathers on our Starseer ought to be pretty impressive.

We’ve been theory-crafting Coatl since the old world, but what do we think are our chances of ever seeing one? We still do need our Allarielle-equivalent...

 

[Aginor]

As a bit of an aside, for a faction with feathers on nearly literally every model, we still don’t have a feathered unit.
Whatever shed the feathers on our Starseer ought to be pretty impressive.

We’ve been theory-crafting Coatl since the old world, but what do we think are our chances of ever seeing one? We still do need our Allarielle-equivalent...

Good point!

Still hoping for that Quetzalcoatl!
...but then they used all the snake aesthetic for the DoK...

 

[Canas]

Cities of Sigmar is the worst possible thing GW could have done - it's pretty much Empire with Dwarf and Elf guest stars, and it's almost certainly a sign that GW are trying to get rid of the original Dwarf and Elf models. I'm pretty sure that the units will be gone for good and will no longer be usable in the game except with Warhammer Legends rules for Open and Narrative Play. If GW had actually cared for these factions and their fans, they would have made the time and effort to give each of them their own full Battletome and some extra models to replace the ones they lost in the initial transition from Fantasy to AoS, rather than culling them and shoehorning the few survivors into the nonsensical Empire/Dark Elf alliance they've decided to actually release.

At least wait till we actually know what's in the tome before calling it the worst thing possible

Imho, it could work. But for it to work they need to actually structure both the lore and actualy armies around the various races and their specific strengths. E.g. the humans are the most numerous and the "generalists" of the bunch, so they provide most of the battle-line and very few of the elite troops. Similarly the dwarfs would provide the heavy armour. While the aelves provide the best scouts & wizards. And the various sub-factions, especially the aelven ones, need to nearly completly dissappear (e.g. the distinction high elf and dark elf no longer makes any sense in AoS). Making it a proper soup battletome would indeed be lazy and just weird...

However, I fear that too much (or at least, a weird combination) will end up surviving and you'l end up with an army with loads of duplicate units fullfilling the same niches. Which would make balancing a pain for starters. For example there's currently 11 battleline options for 80-100 points per 10 models if you combine the various aelves, dwarfs and humans. That's a lot of options that all need to be roughly equally powerfull and fullfill their own niche. But also, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense fluff-wise. For example, why would a city bother training and equiping a unit of human greatswords if they can instead train a unit of dwarven hammerers or elven swordmasters? They fullfill the same battlefield role, but the dwarves and elves are (fluff-wise at least) superiour in every way. So why bother as it's just not efficient? So that should lead to a natural specialisation of the various races. If they incoperate this nicely I could see it being an interesting faction, and even quite a worthy succesor. But I fear they won't...