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AoS NEW *rumor*

PabloTho said:
I could live with if it means that Carnos become substantially more killy. I find that 90 percent of the time when I mention I'm about to use Bloodroar my opponent will just burn a CP on Inspiring Presence.
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Depending on rules interpretation this could do nothing, or you could try something else. But I guess that would do it in nullifying blood roar :(
 
Lizerd said:
Depending on rules interpretation this could do nothing, or you could try something else. But I guess that would do it in nullifying blood roar :(
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i am not sure, but does inspiring presence really help against blood roar?
inspiring presence let you auto pass the battle shock, but you still have to do it.
blood roar adds another part to it and cannot be auto passed since it is a roll off with your opponent.
he can save his units from the normal "run away" but not from blood roar
 
LizardWizard said:
There needs to be a CP bottle neck. If they wanted abilities to be automatic they wouldn't cost cp to use. My hope is that AoS doesn't move into a CP farm like 40k.
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LizardWizard said:
It is certainly possible to farm CP, but it does require giving up Command Traits, Artifacts, and Matched Play Points. I think the current farms builds are at a great balance between accessibility and cost.
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Meh, I think the biggest issue is the vast difference in power between various command abilities. Something like "re-roll hit rolls of 1" should be relativly spammable else you'l barely notice it existing, and sacrificing traits artifiacts and points for that is just not worth it so in that sense you'd want acces to more points. But something like a vampire lord's blood feast giving 1 extra attack per weapon would be stupidly overpowered when easily spammable. Imho they should reconsider command abilities and their respective costs. 40K does it better in that sense by having more powerfull abilities cost more points, though it degenerating into a CP farm isn't exactly appealing either.
 
Vexcor said:
i am not sure, but does inspiring presence really help against blood roar?
inspiring presence let you auto pass the battle shock, but you still have to do it.
blood roar adds another part to it and cannot be auto passed since it is a roll off with your opponent.
he can save his units from the normal "run away" but not from blood roar
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I thought the ability specifically said you do not make the battleshock test, and thus bloodroar did not trigger. At least that's how my local scene has been running it.
 
Deynon-Nikus said:
I thought the ability specifically said you do not make the battleshock test, and thus bloodroar did not trigger. At least that's how my local scene has been running it.
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Right now I am not 100% sure about inspiring presence, but other abilities like that (like the Ironjawz artefact or the SCE command trait) specifically say that the units don't take battleshock tests, so the roar never triggers.
 
Aginor said:
IMO teleport got better. I never made a list relying on being able to move after teleport, but I have lost games because of not being able to teleport at all.
The latter cannot happen anymore.
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Im with you on this, my track record of rolling badly often makes teleporting VERY unreliable when i need it the most. Knowing that you can teleport and move in the next turn means you can plan ahead with a little more certainty.
 
nomis said:
Im with you on this, my track record of rolling badly often makes teleporting VERY unreliable when i need it the most. Knowing that you can teleport and move in the next turn means you can plan ahead with a little more certainty.
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but you can't move, if you use tp you only can charge

EDIT: sorry, i don't read next turn -.- xDD
 
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I like that with great rememberer you are 100% certain to move 2 units. This makes it more reliable for example to bring up an astrolith to the right place without rolling multiple 1s and 2s. You can also be sure to do the very rare combo of the elusive old blood on foot and a 40 saurus blob, then CP move them 3" with his command ability to vastly improve the charge chances.

Don't know if the old blood is worth it, but it is what it is. I prefer being certain and plan ahead with this, rather than holding my breath every time I roll for LoSaT.
 
Canas said:
I think the biggest issue is the vast difference in power between various command abilities. Something like "re-roll hit rolls of 1" should be relativly spammable else you'l barely notice it existing, and sacrificing traits artifiacts and points for that is just not worth it so in that sense you'd want acces to more points. But something like a vampire lord's blood feast giving 1 extra attack per weapon would be stupidly overpowered when easily spammable. Imho they should reconsider command abilities and their respective costs.
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The power of rerolling 1's to hit, save, and random other stat are dependent on the base stat being rerolled. A 3+ save rerolling ones is awesome. Inspiring presence is relatively moot to most death and demon units, but it can be game winning in terms of maintaining hold over an objective. Thus it makes sense to me to keep them all at 1cp and allow the player to determine if using it is a "good" deal or not.
 
LizardWizard said:
The power of rerolling 1's to hit, save, and random other stat are dependent on the base stat being rerolled. A 3+ save rerolling ones is awesome. Inspiring presence is relatively moot to most death and demon units, but it can be game winning in terms of maintaining hold over an objective. Thus it makes sense to me to keep them all at 1cp and allow the player to determine if using it is a "good" deal or not.
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Course it depends on the context, ultimatly nearly anything can end up being the crucial mechanic to win a game in the right circumstances. But there's still a clear difference between some of them. +1 attack is going to be noticeable on nearly every unit, re-rolling 1's is only really going to be noticeable if either you're rolling a buttload of dice or if you're re-rolling for a 3+. A big part of this is also purely perception though, re-rolling 1's just isn't very flashy so even when it's statisticly similar (or slightly better) the ability that gives you more dice to roll, or increases the damage each attack does, will still feel better than something a plain as a re-roll of 1.
 
Maybe with the new heal spell giving a -1 bravery debuff and trog being cheaper(also has innate -1bravery debuff ) GW took away the Fangs of Sotek bloodroar buff cuz we can easily help that roll other ways now???
 
Canas said:
A big part of this is also purely perception though, re-rolling 1's just isn't very flashy so even when it's statisticly similar (or slightly better) the ability that gives you more dice to roll, or increases the damage each attack does, will still feel better than something a plain as a re-roll of 1.
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This doesn't impact me personally. I think you have to balance a game around tournament and casual. In tournmanets most players will do the mental math during or before hand and know which CA is better. For casual the player will just use the one that seems right at the moment. Either way the cost has to be based on the impact and not the feel.
 
Womboski said:
Maybe with the new heal spell giving a -1 bravery debuff and trog being cheaper(also has innate -1bravery debuff ) GW took away the Fangs of Sotek bloodroar buff cuz we can easily help that roll other ways now???
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It is quite a possibility that Bloodroar will work automatically - just d3 models will escape on failed battleshock. It will be way weaker, of course, but more intact with current standarts.

Don't fogret FAQs in the first week of July. It can change some of our warscrolls too.
 
LizardWizard said:
This doesn't impact me personally. I think you have to balance a game around tournament and casual. In tournmanets most players will do the mental math during or before hand and know which CA is better. For casual the player will just use the one that seems right at the moment. Either way the cost has to be based on the impact and not the feel.
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To an extend yes, however if you purely look at impact and not at the feel you'l end up with all sorts of bad mechanics gameplay-wise. Quite a lot of "toxic" strategies whom the victims find overpowered (or at least stupidly frustrating to deal with) get defended with the argument "yeah but you can counter it by doing these very specific strategies so it's totally balanced". Which may be true, but doesn't necesarly mean playing against it is any fun. Similarly a "balanced" strategy isn't necesarly fun to use yourself as when the power is too hidden you'l never get those moments where you can go "aha, my briljant gambit has paid off!" so you'l never feel like you achieved victory. It'l be more like it just sorta happenend. Which is especially true in a game with as many dice as warhammer. If the power isn't visible enough you'l just assume you happenend to have some luck with the dice this time. And not that you won because you as a player did something of significance.

Competitive players generally tend to care less because they're more skilled. And since they are more skilled they're much better at seeing the power hidden within bland basic abilities, so they'l be much more likely to still have that "aha"-moment. Also, there's of course the types of players who don't care (as much) about the strategy being fun or not, but instead simply like the competition itself or other aspects of the game. In those cases you get some more leeway as well. Admittadly there'l still be some point at which even those will tune out due to it being too boring.
 
Canas said:
Which may be true, but doesn't necesarly mean playing against it is any fun. Similarly a "balanced" strategy isn't necesarly fun to use yourself as when the power is too hidden you'l never get those moments where you can go "aha, my briljant gambit has paid off!" so you'l never feel like you achieved victory. It'l be more like it just sorta happenend. Which is especially true in a game with as many dice as warhammer. If the power isn't visible enough you'l just assume you happenend to have some luck with the dice this time. And not that you won because you as a player did something of significance.
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This seems like arguing that classical musics are bad because only classically trained musicians can "appreciate" it. Or that only pro chess players can appreciate the nuances of chess. That is the nature of anything that is more subtle.

If players are feeling like they won just because of dice then maybe they are winning just because of dice. Making them feel like that isn't the case won't actually give them an incentive to seek out the subtleties of the game and understand the long term effects of the positional, tactical, and strategic choices they make. When most players ask me why I did or didn't do something the answer almost always lies in how deployment or movement phases were executed. Sure, movement isn't flashy, but it is the most tactical and subtle phase of the game.
 
LizardWizard said:
This seems like arguing that classical musics are bad because only classically trained musicians can "appreciate" it. Or that only pro chess players can appreciate the nuances of chess. That is the nature of anything that is more subtle.

If players are feeling like they won just because of dice then maybe they are winning just because of dice. Making them feel like that isn't the case won't actually give them an incentive to seek out the subtleties of the game and understand the long term effects of the positional, tactical, and strategic choices they make. When most players ask me why I did or didn't do something the answer almost always lies in how deployment or movement phases were executed. Sure, movement isn't flashy, but it is the most tactical and subtle phase of the game.
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I'm not saying it needs to be "flashy" I'm saying it needs to be clear as to what the impact is of any given ability and decision. Movement is very clear as you can literally see your units move from A to B. An experienced player might appreciate the more subtle moves more than a novice, but even a novice will be able to recognize the value of blocking off the path towards an objective.

In contrast re-rolling 1's isn't very visible unless you're rolling loads of dice. If you have say 10 dice you'l on average re-roll less than 2 dice & you won't even average 1 more succesfull result and it's quite likely the re-rolling rule won't even trigger as you might not roll a 1 to begin with. It might be valueable but unless you're looking at 100's of rolls at a time, or are explicitly doing the math, the added benefit doesn't feel very major as it isn't anywhere near as Obvious as literally standing in the way of an objective or gaining a bunch of extra dice to roll.

Does that make it clearer what I mean?
 
classical musics are bad because only classically trained musicians can "appreciate" it. :P
 
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