AoS If you could update the warscrolls, what would you change?

[Stormscales]

For my part, I think Saurus Knights should get 4+ saves, like some proper heavy cavalry. 5+ saves are only acceptable for light cavalry, which Saurus Knights, as one of the slowest cavalries in the game at Movement 7, are most certainly not. Even Drakespawn Knights, who are also mounted on Cold Ones, have both Movement 10 and 4+ saves. "But stardrake shields!" Sorry, not good enough. I want my 4+, dammit. My 4+ and my stardrake shields.

Another thing: the big monsters should get more Rend. Looking at you in particular, Troglodon. You're a huge lizard with three different kinds of attack (rider not included) and no Rend whatsoever! In my opinion, any attack with Damage 2 or more (such as the Clawed Forelimbs of both Troglodons and Carnosaurs) should get at least -1 Rend. The Seraphon army in general is sorely lacking in Rend.

Lastly, the basic Stegadon and the Stegadon with EOTG should have the exact same stats. Same goes for a Scar Veteran's Carnosaur and an Oldblood's Carnosaur. This is not a matter of balance, but only to make things easier to remember. There is no reason why one monster should have different stats from an identical monster ridden by someone else.

 

[LizardWizard]

There is no reason why one monster should have different stats from an identical monster ridden by someone else.

I agree. It is likely a hold over from Warhammer when named Heroes would have different monster stats on the same mount. The Oldblood is just the generic version of a hero past.


As far as warscroll changes, I would like to see all Saurus units with a 4+ ignoring rend -1.

I also think that Ripperdactyels could use a bit of a nerf, maybe just a points increase. Razordons definitely need a point increase.

Lastly, I want Lord Kroak and the Slann Starmasters to have a bonus to casting and unbinding rolls. Even just a +1. Additionally I want Seraphon to have access to their own lore of magic. Summing with my Slann is fantastic, but every now and then I would like them to be an actual wizard.

 

[Caleb ex nihilo]

Kroak and Slann should be powerful wizards... instead of just summoning vessels.

Skink Starseer needs to be reworked. Literally useless right now. 200 pts for 2+ command points = better to just pay for 4 cmd pts.

Skink Priest - kinda useless. I rarely field him and usually just use his spell via command trait. Give him some sort of skink command ability and he might see the table again.

Guard - need to be 2 wound models

Knights - Lance mortal wounds should be on a HIT roll of 6, not wound.

Warriors - 4+ save would make them useful.

Razors, Bastiladons, EoTG, Skinks - These all fine.

 

[Burwinkelito]

Guard - need to be 2 wound models

Knights - Lance mortal wounds should be on a HIT roll of 6, not wound.

+1

 

[ILKAIN]

Guard 2 wounds

Knights 4+ save

Shields should add +1 cover save (so it cant be combined with terrain (for balance)) instead of ignore rend -1

Ripperdactyls should be +10 points (150 total)

Kroak: CD should hit all enemies in that short ten range, not be limited to 3
Command ability should be changed to support the types of armies he will be in (I personally don't see him as being in a Saurus focused build)
Points need to drop to ~350, the nerfs in the FAQ destroyed him and he is simply not even close to worth 450

Slann/Kroak: inherent +1 to casting (+2 with the constellation) lore describes slann as some of the most powerful casters in existance
Spell lore for both with a heavy Snake theme or jungle theme (summoning temporary terrain for example)

Priest needs prayer lore

Same stats for monsters with different riders

Seraphon are Daemons... let our healing act as reconstitution and allow us to restore lost models to units, so long as the unit has at least 1 model left and is not above its starting size (so if you brought a 20 unit Saurus unit in with summoning, it can never go over 20 even though max unit size is 40) this fits the lore of Saurus being "born" with their broods ready to go... a brood of 20 isn't going to randomly add more as the spawning already occurred.

Rend -3 on carno jaws, rend -2 on claws these are BEASTS that are built to EAT other monsters.... hard to eat dinner if you cant cut through the skin.

 

[pendrake]

Skinks with Bows.

 

[Just A Skink]

Overall, I would like to see them drop the rank bonus, and turn those bonuses into "special abilities" more like how some AoS armies work. I admit that mostly caters to my wish to not have to field huge blocks of saurus or skinks. However, I know that the horde style fits the current Seraphon fluff.

Saurus
I agree that I would like to see all saurus have +1 wounds. Warriors & Guard have 2, and Knights have 3. I wouldn't mind seeing the Stardrake Shields ignore Rend up to -2, so the enemy would need -3 or more (would that be too tough?).

Skinks
Maybe Javelin is 5+/4+ (ranged) and 5+/5+ (melee). Boltspitter is 4+/5+ (ranged) and 5+/6+ (melee)?

 

[pendrake]

I would like to see New Warscrolls for existing models. Simple conversions to make new kinds of units. Such as:

Unridden Stegadons
(trailed by a pair of Saurus Guard handlers)

Riderless Bastilodon
(trailed by a pair of Saurus Guard handlers)

Cold One Hunting Pack
(one big old Kroxigor holding their leashes)


The first two are just big behemoths for the sole purpose of stomping mudholes in the enemy. If Elf beastmasters can manage hydra you’d think a pair of Saurus could get a Steggy pointed the right direction.

The second one is the Lizardman analog of the Skaven and their giant-rat & pack-master unit. Except neither vile nor filthy.

 

[Putzfrau]

Saurus
I agree that I would like to see all saurus have +1 wounds. Warriors & Guard have 2, and Knights have 3. I wouldn't mind seeing the Stardrake Shields ignore Rend up to -2, so the enemy would need -3 or more (would that be too tough?).

Holy yes please batman. Saurus would be arguably the best battle line unit in the game if they had 2 wounds and ignored up to -2 rend!


Realistically I'd like to see Saurus get a "scaly hide" save or something like that. Essentially a 6+ FNP similar to Witch Aelves, or just +1 to their save.

Being able to run and charge would be pretty clutch, but i'm just being greedy

 

[LizardWizard]

Doubling Saurus Warriors wounds would require a huge point cost increase. 80 wounds with a 4 up ignoring some rend would be way too good for only 360 MPP.

 

[Putzfrau]

Doubling Saurus Warriors wounds would require a huge point cost increase. 80 wounds with a 4 up ignoring some rend would be way too good for only 360 MPP.

Which is why i'd rather see just a little bump here or there. Maybe a +1 to save, a rend on the bite attack, or something else. They really don't need much IMO.

 

[Just A Skink]

Doubling their wounds would require a huge point cost increase. 80 wounds with a 4 up ignoring some rend would be way too good for only 360 MPP.

That's a good point @LizardWizard . Ha ha. I'm bad at balancing units.

I guess I was just trying to think of an "easy" way to make saurus worth taking over skinks (since many people seem to say that skinks can survive almost as well, but are cheaper). I thought wounds would be reasonable, but that might be too much. I'm probably a bit too swayed by seeing the scrolls of the SCE that is played by one of my friends (virtually everything has multiple wounds).

 

[Aginor]

I also think that making Saurus Warriors "elite" multi wound infantry, more akin to Ironjawz Ardboys would work fine.
And then the Saurus Guard would be the really good version, like Ironjawz Brutes.

Knights are OK I think, but IMO they should be a bit faster, OR have a better save OR a wound more. They feel kinda like heavy cavalry but they aren't.

More rend for monsters. Especially the Troggy.

Make the Starseer great again.

Make Kroxigor proper monstrous infantry, probably increase their price but give them stats akin to Morghasts.

Make the Slanns better casters.

Give the Skink heroes useful command abilities.

Feral dinosaurs like in the Total War Warhammer 2 PC game would be nice.
So would be the revivification crystal version of the Basti.

 

[Kurufinwe]

I also think that making Saurus Warriors "elite" multi wound infantry, more akin to Ironjawz Ardboys would work fine.
And then the Saurus Guard would be the really good version, like Ironjawz Brutes.

Knights are OK I think, but IMO they should be a bit faster, OR have a better save OR a wound more. They feel kinda like heavy cavalry but they aren't.

More rend for monsters. Especially the Troggy.

Make the Starseer great again.

Make Kroxigor proper monstrous infantry, probably increase their price but give them stats akin to Morghasts.

Make the Slanns better casters.

Give the Skink heroes useful command abilities.

Feral dinosaurs like in the Total War Warhammer 2 PC game would be nice.
So would be the revivification crystal version of the Basti.

Agreed on most fronts. Would love a better spellcaster in Slann. Some seraphon specific spells would be lovely for them. Maybe a better/additional command ability. Or an inherent +1 on casting/unbinding.

Knights either need more wounds/better save OR more movement. Too slow to be fast cavalry, too weak to be heavy calvalry. I only use them as the tax for dracothion

2 wound guards for sure! Idk about warriors though. With 2 wounds on warrior I feel like the point cost would go way up and wouldn't be able to field 40 of them effectively. I like my hordes! A 4+ save or ignore rend -2 would be nice though.

Command abilities seem lacking to me on units besides SV and oldblood.

Would love to be able to get more blot toads after the first hero phase, but that might be wishful thinking. Maybe 9" out from enemies after first hero phase?

 

[DeathBringer125]

I think saurus guards should be heavier units and have 2-3 hp per peice and do more damage. Obviously they would need to be more expensive but I think this would make them a lot cooler. I have always thought of saurus guard as an elite and highly trained unit because they would guard the Slann. Although they can get a 2+ save they are WAAAAY to suscpetible to mortal wounds. They should either have hp buffed or maybe have a save to ignore mortal wounds. Even if they don’t buff damage at all they should have saved to ignore mortal wounds. Lol seraphon needs a powerful shield wall.

 

[Aginor]

Yeah you could say they have Bastiladon shell shields, which resist mortal wounds on a 4+

 

[Itza'qu]

A lot of what I think has already been said, but I do have some stuff to add.

Every Saurus unit should get base 2 jaw attacks.
Swap the sizes for the Warrior bonus
Give the Carno's jaws -2 rend and change his damage table to a four stage degradation
Add something that creates a design to have all facets of out forces in one list, be it skink, saurus, beast or slann.

 

[VVolfsong]

My wishlist:

+1 wound to all Saurus units.
Make our shields reduce rend by one level rather than just ignore -1.
Change Saurus Knight's movement to 10.
Add more rend on our large dinos.
Evaluate every unit ability and command ability, and either buff or completely rework a significant portion of them.
Adjust point costs where needed after the above changes.

 

[Nacho]

Here are my thoughts after some games (take them as the thoughts of a new player)

- Fix this huge problem: right now, as rules go KROAK IS NOT A SLANN other than in name. I mean, he can't use arcane vassal and he doesn't have celestial configuration or gift from the heavens. Make Kroak a slann, give him all the abilities of a normal slann, and then give him his special spells, abilities and command ability as an extra (he is almost double the cost of a normal slann, why isn't he performing as a slann?). If neccessary, up his points a little bit, as in 475 or something like that. But nowadays it feels like if you want to field Kroak, you need to take a second slann just for the abilities.

- Saurus guard: either 2 wounds AND a 6+ feel no pain, or a feel no pain of 4+ like the bastiladon. Or give them the 4+ feel no pain when taken as part of the Eternal Starhost. Right now, a unit of 10 Saurus guard, the elite of our army, blessed with the task of protecting the allmighty slann mage priest are only good against... other Seraphon armies, because we can't deal mortal wounds. 20 of this guys can't even handle the charge of 20 plague monks (or the retaliation), just because they deal a lot of mortal wounds, and that is just sad. What's good in ignoring rend and having a 2+ armour save if people snipe them with mortal wounds, losing half the basic unit to 1D3 mortal wounds?

- Saurus warriors: give them a 4+ save. Right now they are ridiculous. I lost a unit of 20 saurus (i would have lost 34) to 8 plague monks after making the charge. At least give them a chance of survival.

- Ripperdactyls, Skinks and Razordons: they should totally go up in points (maybe 160, 75-80 and 50-55 respectively). They are way too good for their cost. Maybe even the Engine of the Gods should go up in points, maybe to 235 or something like that.

- Some kind of "Lore of the beasts" for our slanns and skink starpriests. We have to have a difficult time when choosing between casting spells and keeping conjuration points. And give skink priests some kind of chants.

- Saurus cavalry: movement 8", 3+ save armour without ignoring rend, or 4+ ignoring -1 rend. And change the models. Ours look stupid.

- Fix the carnosaur: both carnosaurs have to be the same. And give them and extra -1 rend.

- Fix the troglodon: Rend. Rend. Rend.

- Fix the stegadon: at least Rend -1 the turn he charges. He is a freaking massive dinosaur with horns charging and stomping all around!!! Make him do something!!! Anything!! Make him useful in any other way than being there to summon units. In my last game, he charged a unit of stormfiends and did not one single wound before he died that same turn. If he has to go up in points for that, that's ok, but make him useful in other role.

- Terradons: they are ok as they are, quite balanced, maybe go for 125 points.

- Kroxigors: haven't played them, so i don't know, but they seem way overcosted.

- Saurus heroes in general: they are ok for their point cost, not overpowered,but they have a handful of useful abilities, decent stats... leave them as they are.

- Chameleons and Salamanders: haven't played them yet, but they seem ok for their cost.

As you can see, all my thoughts are going in the same direction: GIVE US THE CHANCE TO PLAY DIFFERENT LISTS instead of sticking to "slann + skinks spam + engine of the gods spam" or "slann + skinks + thunderquake" or "slann + shadowstrike". But do it by making the rest of the units competitive or better,not by nerfing the ones we use. I want to play saurus in a tournament and not be the easy win for everyone else.

- One last thing: datasheet for skink chief. And update the cavalry models.

 

[Hu3pfka3s3]

Lastly, the basic Stegadon and the Stegadon with EOTG should have the exact same stats. Same goes for a Scar Veteran's Carnosaur and an Oldblood's Carnosaur. This is not a matter of balance, but only to make things easier to remember. There is no reason why one monster should have different stats from an identical monster ridden by someone else.

I can tell you why there is a difference. It's the fluff. Back in the old days the standard stegadon used to be younger and wilder than the old relaxed and slow Stegadon that carried the Engine. Thats why the Engine has less rend etc. Same with the two different Carnosaurs. There is a standard one and Grymloq for Kroq-Gar, literally just namechanged from the old warscrolls.

Skink Priest - kinda useless. I rarely field him and usually just use his spell via command trait. Give him some sort of skink command ability and he might see the table again.

You mean the Starpriest right? In my opinion he is godlike together with a Dread Saurian making his attacks dealing 12 dmg a pop with luck ;D.

But overall very funny what some people wishes for our army. Only see things that would make them more op like they are now haha ;D I'm completely ok with the whole army. Fielding all modells in there and they never disappoint me. The only thing i want to change is the summoning. Just remove this garbage ^^