• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS Seraphon nerfs

Gw again. We need a FAQ for that FAQ already.
Case: Astrolith Bearer

They changed Celestial Conduit so that the AB is now a moving buffing machine with 12" range. BUT:
It removed the planting of the banner. And this is required for Proud Defiance.
They way i read it now (or you can or cannnot read it) is, that you can move and also give the reroll hit, because it is now nowhere written at what point you have to plant the banner? :shrugs:
 
I also like to use my Slann, but yeah, IMO we have too many things depending on a Slann. I don't like that.

I still think this is not the end of the world, and we still have some quite powerful stuff available. But now we are back to being an army with very few really units that are good on their own, which relies on synergies and player skill to be able to beat the really good ones.
Probably not going to win tournaments against the cheese flavor of the day, but still better than most armies.

Btw, talking about other armies: can any of you say something about Tzeentch in the new edition? Stronger, weaker, different? Or still more or less the same as in AoS1?
 
I think it's in addition to having to ant the banner, they have to be within the 12" I'd play it that way just so you don't get used to it being mobile then have to go back to keeping it stationary.
 
The old Tzeentch lists got gutted. Price increases across the board when 2.0 hit.


The gloom and doom around Kroak seems a little misplaced. He was still used (and fairly strong) before 2.0 and he's stronger now, even if heavily nerfed from his post 2.0/pre faq state.

The biggest issue we have is lack of lore. If that's ever solved, we'll be in a great spot. If it's not, Kroak is still very strong.

No model should be able to pump out ~100mw in a turn, even under the most ideal of scenarios.
 
Aginor said:
Nice to see some Destruction guys in the upper half though.
Click to expand...
I was really happy to see Ironjawz in 11th! I heard a rumor they were getting some love beginning of next year? So fingers crossed.
 
Putzfrau said:
The gloom and doom around Kroak seems a little misplaced. He was still used (and fairly strong) before 2.0 and he's stronger now, even if heavily nerfed from his post 2.0/pre faq state.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Before:
Mystic Shield was +1 save
Arcane Bolt was D3mw
Celestial Deliverence could only be cast once
Celestial Deliverence had 3d6" range
Celestial Deliverence hit all enemies in range
Celestial Deliverence did d3mw
Balewind Vortex doubled spell range
Balewind Vortex prevented all melee combat
Enemies have 18" range unbind
You could bring any number of Astroliths
Insight to reroll

Now:
Mystic Shield is reroll save1 (we have many other ways to get rerollable saves)
Arcane Bolt is 1mw
Celestial Deliverence can be cast up to 3 times at 8+, 9+, 10+
Celestial Deliverence has static 10" range
Celestial Deliverence hits 3 enemy units
Celestial Deliverence does d3mw after rolling a 2+
Balewind Vortex is +6" range
Balewind Vortex no longer stops melee combat
Look Out Sir helps against shooting
Enemies have 30" range unbinds
You can't benefit from more than 1 Astrolith at a time
Insight gives command points, which are not useful for his casting

Without Insight or multiple banners it is going to be difficult to get more than one cast of CD - it's almost not even worth trying. The cast value increases on cast attempt so if the first CD is unbound (Knight-Incantor says hello!) then the next cast is on a 9+. Most people don't play with the Realm rules, so you're stuck casting the weaker Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield.

I think Kroak is objectively weaker than he was before and is never going to be worth 450 points.
 
Part of the Kroak nerfs, may also be to promote using the spell lores for the realms. Instead of spamming CD, you will be more inclined to cast spell X from realm Y.
 
The Astrolith changes probably annoy me the most, because they’re imprecise (which sentences have been replaced - i.e. regarding planting the banner as mentioned above) and now add two different measurements from the model - 10” and 12”.
 
Kroak was major cheese before, I'm pretty sure nobody ever enjoyed playing against a Kroaknado list. He wasn't even close to fair or balanced in AoS1 and he was completely bonkers OP in AoS2.

Now, after the fixes, at least you have to do some work and rely on dice rolls to get his spells off. You know, like every other model does. I feel he's still pretty good, just not "kill Kroak or lose the game" good.

I'm very glad the title of cheese-army might finally pass on to someone else. I say might, because we're still plenty strong and have a ton of advantages over most armies.
 
PJetski said:
I think Kroak is objectively weaker than he was before and is never going to be worth 450 points.
Click to expand...

Kroak also has summoning, which is a massive change over 1.0 Kroak. He also has the benefit of endless spells (cogs being the standout), which are nothing to scoff at.

Regardless, Kroak needed more than just a slap on the wrist. I guess we will have to wait and see how it shakes out. I still think Kroak is strong, but perhaps the nerfs were a little too far.
 
I wanna look at the bright side.
Now i can play Kroak without being "that guy"... kroaknado wasn't exactly fun
 
Killer Angel said:
I wanna look at the bright side.
Now i can play Kroak without being "that guy"... kroaknado wasn't exactly fun
Click to expand...
yeah for 100 points more than he should cost lol.

Im mad about the nerfs, any one one of them would have been enough IMO... But there is just no way any one can claim his points are any where near justified as he is now.
 
ILKAIN said:
yeah for 100 points more than he should cost lol.

Im mad about the nerfs, any one one of them would have been enough IMO... But there is just no way any one can claim his points are any where near justified as he is now.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest giving him a try before making super definitive statements.

Unless you have, in which case i'd love to hear your experience.
 
To be fair, he is still kinda Immortal, hide him in some skinks and have an eternity warden nearby. -1 to hit and just pass a long wounds. While still having his heal ability is still pretty nice.
 
pendrake said:
Well done with the prediction...



The answer to this and all similar questions can be found :oldman: by answering this:

How have sales of the relevant model kits (Stegadon / EotG) been doing?
Click to expand...
You know, I was mocked and even blocked by the AOS Seraphon group on FB just by suggesting something similar... Oh and calling them out for being a bunch of toxic nu-males. Ahem.

Anyways. I think it does make sense, the summoning mechanics encourage you to summon big monsters and loads of pastic stuff. Nerfing finecast stuff "including kroak which is from 2003"
So what you are saying does make a lot of sense. I am glad I am not the only one who tought about it.
 
Moc-Tzen said:
You know, I was mocked and even blocked by the AOS Seraphon group on FB just by suggesting something similar... Oh and calling them out for being a bunch of toxic nu-males. Ahem.

Anyways. I think it does make sense, the summoning mechanics encourage you to summon big monsters and loads of pastic stuff. Nerfing finecast stuff "including kroak which is from 2003"
So what you are saying does make a lot of sense. I am glad I am not the only one who tought about it.
Click to expand...

But 2.0 also massively buffed Slaan by making them all but essential to power-lists with summoning, and also did likewise for Astrolith Bearers, both of which are finecast. Two of our best ranged options are Salamanders and Razordons, both of which are ancient Finecast. One of the newest kits is the Carnosaur/Troglodon, neither of which are particularly meta and which tend to pale in comparison to the Bastiladon.

So no, I don't tend to buy the argument that GW buffs or nerfs things according to models they want to sell. Summoning mechanics for all armies encourage you to buy more things, yet GW did not add in summoning mechanics for all armies, even when it would make thematic sense (Kharadron Overlords for example).
 
Not saying you are wrong...

Galen said:
GW did not add in summoning mechanics for all armies, even when it would make thematic sense (Kharadron Overlords for example).
Click to expand...

...but how would that make thematic sense for the SkyDwarfs? Do they have radios?!?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top