• The forum software have been upgraded to the latest version.

    If you notice anything that looks off, or does not work, please let us know.

    For more information, click here.

AoS A request to the well known master of cheese @InfamousBeany

Seraphage
Stegadon

Seraphage

Well-Known Member
Messages
983
Likes Received
1,305
Trophy Points
93
So I was wondering after all the hype of the weekend - went to my first tournament, lost hard but learnt way too much and enjoyed it even more ( will report it at some point ) - and the TAC list thread, I would like to ask from @InfamousBeany, this cheese specialist, a TAC list with no restrictions..
Anything goes. The only prerequisite is that you approve it.
 
Whilst I am extremely flattered (I do really like cheese), we have some excellent list builders on the forums as of late. @Killer Angel and @Bowser have both been lynchpins in pushing Seraphon lists forward, and @Joshua Horchler seems to be an up and coming all-star.

What I think would be fun is if we basically crowd source a broke ass list- if we all contribute on what we feel the perfect list should contain, provide suggestions for 'packages' (e.g the Collegiate Arcane Package of a Jade Battlemage and a Hurricanum, for a total of 420 points) that can be put together, we can hopefully forge the meanest, most efficient TAC list possible.

I'll leave the floor open for some others first, I'm seriously fired up to see what we can put together.
 
I'll start by listing out the "cheesiest" Seraphon units and battalions, this is the only army I've played. It's funny because Seraphon aren't a very cheesy army, so their cheese ratings are going to be low. I'm going to rely on the rest of you for other Order cheese!

My rough definition of "cheese" is -
1) A lack of counter play. ex. a Thundertusk dealing 6 mortal wounds from 18 inches away.
2) Break the normal rules of the game. ex. Chameleon skink movement
3) Large impact for a low point cost - ex. Kurnoth Hunters or most Stormcast units

***For scale purposes consider Stormfiends a 10, Frostlord Thundertusk ~ 8.5/9, Grot Fanatics ~8/8.5, Kurnoth Hunters ~7/8


6/10 Mozzarella Balls - Chameleon Skinks - (120 points) Not the most powerful unit in terms of dmg output but definitely one of the best units in the game in terms of movement. You can't beat their ambush ability and objective snatching. Also, super fun to use!

6.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Starseer - (160 points) Physic powers and the ability to re-roll any die, including your opponents. This ability can win you games. Learn to master the game of the dice and you can probably on average get 4 re-rolls. As a weaker hero, he is prone to assassination and still costs 160 points, but his ability is rare and very powerful.

4.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Skink Priest with Tappings - (100 points)See below :P While only a 50/50 chance, you can get rerolls for charges, runs, and saves for all units in 8 inches. No where near to broker, but in combination with other buffs and battalions, this can be very powerful.

5.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Sarus Guard - @LordRibbit - Has shown that a 2+ armor battle-line unit with a potential of d3 damage is very powerful. You have to use a good number of these guys, 25+, to make them stick around due to mortal wounds, and they are 20 points per model. I mean, with a Priest you get a 2++ save! Without a ton of mortal wounds, your opponents will be very frustrated. Still a 1 wound model that is pretty slow, but very powerful and nothing is more cheesy than a 2++ :)

5.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Quicksilver Potion - A great artifact. Do you want your big monster/hero to hit first? Do you want it to be a free activation? Look no further. This is very powerful on our Carnosaurs and heroes.

@InfamousBeany

7.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Kurnoth Hunters- 180 Points for 3, no battlefield role, Sylvaneth. Scythes or Bows are the way to go for these- you either have combat monsters with -2 rend weapons, or a unit that can shoot at artillery ranges, with artillery damage. Fantastic in both aggressive or defensive strategies, and can be dropped in army and pull their weight. I really wish there were some more efficient Sylvaneth formations to abuse these with, but alas theyeither rpovide too little benefit or are just simply too investment heavy.

9.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Celestial Hurricanum- You know it, you love it (or hate it), it's arguably the single most versatile and splashable unnit in the game, it pumps out mortal wounds like i pump out affection for Bastiladons- the Hurricanum. 320 points, Behemoth and Leader roles, Collegiate Arcane. What can I say that hasn't already been gushed about already? It provides a flat +1 to hit to all Order units, it increases the casting rolls of its faction by 1, it has a Kroak-esque mortal wounds spell, it can shoot more mortal wounds up to three times a turn...phew.
We as a faction suffer from lack of ability to produce mortal wounds and some dodgy to hit roll stats- this fixes both of those. If you want to play even semi-competitively, one of these is almost a must.

@scubrat

8.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Ripperdactyls -These guys move 14", they do a horrible amount of attacks, if you stick them in the shadowstrike starhost it's even worse, and they're only 140pts for a unit.

@ljwylde

7/10 Mozzarella Balls - (DOUBLE) BASTILADON WITH LASER - 2d6 attacks that have rend and 2 damage! A 3+ save that can easily be improved to 2+ rerolling. Ignores rend. 4+ against mortal wounds . Designed to be abused with a thunderquake/ Jade Battlemage or both!!
 
Last edited:
Well I'd like to add Starseer.
Should be 6/10 of the Mozarella Balls scale. It has a huge risk on use, also needs careful placement and so on but what you get probably outweighs everything else + when you wanna play it safe, just go for the 3 rerolls which while seem not that many, can still be of great use on a charge that must be lost / taken, deny D6 spells / hits or of course, keep 2 for turn priority

P.S.: and of course a Mystic Shield or some damage deal always are just too useful
 
8.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Ripperdactyls

These guys move 14", they do a horrible amount of attacks, if you stick them in the shadowstrike starhost it's even worse, and they're only 140pts for a unit.
 
I feel like I should provide some non Seraphon examples- also i dig the Mozzarella Ball scale.

Kurnoth Hunters- 7.5/10 Mozza Balls

180 Points for 3, no battlefield role, Sylvaneth.

Scythes or Bows are the way to go for these- you either have combat monsters with -2 rend weapons, or a unit that can shoot at artillery ranges, with artillery damage.

Fantastic in both aggressive or defensive strategies, and can be dropped in army and pull their weight.

I really wish there were some more efficient Sylvaneth formations to abuse these with, but alas theyeither rpovide too little benefit or are just simply too investment heavy.

Celestial Hurricanum- 9.5/10 Mozza Balls

You know it, you love it (or hate it), it's arguably the single most versatile and splashable unnit in the game, it pumps out mortal wounds like i pump out affection for Bastiladons- the Hurricanum.

320 points, Behemoth and Leader roles, Collegiate Arcane.

What can I say that hasn't already been gushed about already? It provides a flat +1 to hit to all Order units, it increases the casting rolls of its faction by 1, it has a Kroak-esque mortal wounds spell, it can shoot more mortal wounds up to three times a turn...phew.

We as a faction suffer from lack of ability to produce mortal wounds and some dodgy to hit roll stats- this fixes both of those.

If you want to play even semi-competitively, one of these is almost a must.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@scubrat I'm not sure I could ever say that Rippers are better than Chameleon skinks. I feel they are just too costly an investment to really call them cheesy- they don't even have rend.

They definitely have their place, but are they really worth 260 points and more restrictions to be able to dump down on the table? Just my thoughts.
 
InfamousBeany said:
@scubrat I'm not sure I could ever say that Rippers are better than Chameleon skinks. I feel they are just too costly an investment to really call them cheesy- they don't even have rend.

They definitely have their place, but are they really worth 260 points and more restrictions to be able to dump down on the table? Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

So far, with ripperdactyls, in the first turn I have killed a verminlord corruptor, a plague furnace, drazhoath, a dreadquake mortar and taken 19 wounds off a magma dragon. I don't know about costing 260pts, the other benefits you get with that, rerolls for skinks, extra move at the start and an extra artefact take off some of that steep cost in a shadowstrike.
 
I wouldn't get too caught up in the exact rankings, but I would tend to agree that as far as "cheese" goes Rippers are actually closer to the balanced side. I say that because their ability to deep strike can be well defend by most armies. They are powerful and can do great things, but because there is a lot of counter play from your opponents I would bring them down a bit on the "cheese" scale.

My rough definition of cheese is -

1) A lack of counter play. ex. a Thundertusk dealing 6 mortal wounds from 18 inches away.
2) Break the normal rules of the game. ex. Chameleon skink movement
3) Huge impact for a low point cost - ex. Kurnoth Hunters or most Stormcast units
 
7/10 Mozzarella Balls
(DOUBLE) BASTILADON WITH LASER:
2d6 attacks that have rend and 2 damage!
A 3+ save that can easily be improved to 2+ rerolling
Ignores rend
4+ against mortal wounds
Designed to be abused with a thunderquake/ Jade Battlemage or both!!

To top it all off, other things mentioned on this thread make it more reliable. (hurricanam gives +1 one to hit/ Starpriest gives double damage on 6/ amber Battlemage gives plus one to wound, so the double damage comes on 5 or 6!)
 
Gryph-Hounds don't know if they would be called cheesy, but pretty essential for the all comers, as long as you have the shooting to back it up. Low points puts them top ranked necessity against deep strikers and summoning armies.
 
ljwylde said:
7/10 Mozzarella Balls
(DOUBLE) BASTILADON WITH LASER:
2d6 attacks that have rend and 2 damage!
A 3+ save that can easily be improved to 2+ rerolling
Ignores rend
4+ against mortal wounds
Designed to be abused with a thunderquake/ Jade Battlemage or both!!

To top it all off, other things mentioned on this thread make it more reliable. (hurricanam gives +1 one to hit/ Starpriest gives double damage on 6/ amber Battlemage gives plus one to wound, so the double damage comes on 5 or 6!)
Click to expand...

"Until your next hero phase, whenever models from that unit attack with their bite or jaws, a wound roll of 6 or more causes twice the normal amount of Damage"

That wouldn't work for the Bastiladon's Searing Beam :(
 
l'll do my best to keep updating my first post to combine everyone's input! Then people can start making lists, which was the whole goal haha.
 
For me it has to be an eternity starhost with a skink priest, unless your opponent can dish out a high mortal wound count they are almost impossible to shift. How many battleline units can have a 2+ save and put out d3 damage attacks?
 
Leaders
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (320)
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Jade Battlemage (100)
Battlemage
- Artefact: Phoenix Stone
Amber Battlemage (100)
Battlemage
Skink Chief (60)
- General
- Golden Sickle
- Trait: Master of Defense

Battleline
10 x Skinks (80)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (80)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (80)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
1 x Gryph-Hound (40)
3 x Skink Handlers (40)
3 x Razordons (180)

Behemoths
Troglodon (200)
Bastiladon (300)
Bastiladon (300)

Battalions
Thunderquake Starhost (120)

Similar to another list I suggested, but now with skink chief and amber battlemage your searing beams hit on a 2+ and wound on a 2+, for one and 2+ 3+ for the other. Thunderquake savage gives them rerolls to wound and saves. Plus they heal, and moreso with the jade battlemage. Gryph-Hound calls out deep strikers, and 2 bastiladons, hurricanum and razordons, and any skinks in range shred those deep strikers. Alternatively you could use vulkite berserkers as the battleline. Potential to ignore wounds and mortal wounds, bladed Slingshields dish out a few more mortal wounds.
 
6.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Sisters of the Thorn - (220 points) they are costly, but their spell is uber. You will give a unit the ability to inflict mortal wounds for each roll 6+ on saves. Temple Guards in eternal starhost and mysticshielded got a +3 on saves, which means that they will deliver mortal wounds for each save roll of 3+. I keep the rating low because of the hgh cost and for the fact that they need another unit to work.

Joshua Horchler said:
2) Break the normal rules of the game. ex. Chameleon skink movement
Click to expand...

6.0/10 Mozzarella Balls - High elves Ellyrian Reavers- (160 points) they move, they shoot, (3 arrows each), they move again (2d6"). A shooting cavalry that can move so freely is truly nice, a great harassment unit, that can easily take any far objective and that won't be taken by almost anything.
Sadly, they shoot at 4+/4+, and this means that 5 of them will force... 3-4 saves each turn, which is nothing exceptional, especially considering the high cost (this keeps the rating low), BUT they're battleline, and that's definitely a plus.
 
Last edited:
Killer Angel said:
6.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - Sisters of the Thorn - (220 points) they are costly, but their spell is uber. You will give a unit the ability to inflict mortal wounds for each roll 6+ on saves. Temple Guards in eternal starhost and mysticshielded got a +3 on saves, which means that they will deliver mortal wounds for each save roll of 3+. I keep the rating low because of the hgh cost and for the fact that they need another unit to work.



6.0/10 Mozzarella Balls - High elves Ellyrian Reavers- (160 points) they move, they shoot, (3 arrows each), they move again (2d6"). A shooting cavalry that can move so freely is truly nice, a great harassment unit, that can easily take any far objective and that won't be taken by almost anything.
Sadly, they shoot at 4+/4+, and this means that 5 of them will force... 3-4 saves each turn, which is nothing exceptional, especially considering the high cost (this keeps the rating low), BUT they're battleline, and that's definitely a plus.
Click to expand...

Very interesting unit indeed ! I think that the mortal wounds will still be inflicted on a 6+ though as it says "on a 6+" and not "when a wound is saved" ?
 
Edited***

How about the big daddy himself. This is not cheap, points wise or dollar wise, but here it is:

7.5/10 Mozzarella Balls - BIG DADDY DREAD + Skink Starpriest- (500 Points) This combo seems very good. The priest can use Summon Starlight on the big boy which makes your opponents attacks hit at -. Priest can also grant him the venom buff. The 16 wound, +3 armor monster has the potential to do 2d6 dmg at -3 rend on each Jaw attacks :) He can heal wounds back, and is a giant board presence. He is very expensive, but 16 wounds is a ton and his melee damage is insane. The problem with units like this is, can you make back your points?

Thoughts????
 
Last edited:
Joshua Horchler said:
Did i just find the ultimate Seraphon cheese? Two Skink Star priests? Wait, this seems amazing. Imagine a block of Guard with 2 Summon Starlight buffs on it. You can get a +2 re-rollable save, and all attacks, including mortal wounds are hitting them at -2 to hit...

Or, how about the big daddy himself. This is not cheap, points wise or dollar wise, but here it is:

8/10 Mozzarella Balls - BIG DADDY DREAD + Skink Starpriest + Skink Starpriest - (600 Points) This combo seems amazing. The two priests can use Summon Starlight on the big boy which makes your opponents attacks hit at -2!!!!!! One can also grant him the venom buff. The 16 wound, +3 armor monster has the potential to do 2d6 dmg at -3 rend on each Jaw attacks :) He can heal wounds back, and is a giant board presence. He is very expensive, but 16 wounds is a ton and his melee damage is insane. The problem with units like this is, can you make back your points?

Thoughts????
Click to expand...
The first rule of 1kills this, but you're on the right track with your thinking.
 
DAMN YOU BOWSER AND YOUR LOGIC AND RULES :)

I knew that! Still very powerful. Thanks for reminding me!
 
Haha! Yeah, me and my rules, always a party pooper, for 120 you can add an archmage for a bubble 6 up extra save against wounds and mortal wounds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top