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Tutorial Tactics for Seraphon - Troops

Looks to be a good build to me. Solid reasons and tactics. What battleline units are you taking, as because of battlemage it can't be the knights. Would be curious to see your entire build here.
 
Bowser said:
Looks to be a good build to me. Solid reasons and tactics. What battleline units are you taking, as because of battlemage it can't be the knights. Would be curious to see your entire build here.
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Battleline will be some mix of Warriors and Skinks - the balance of which I will work out as I go along. Both of those are very easy to model into my theme (almost too easy, people may not even notice) so it's not a big deal. The Knights are more work with the green stuff so I wanted to check I had understood how the rules work before progressing too far.

Thanks for the positive response.
 
Oh I didn't answer the question! But yes because it is two separate abilities and not the same one twice the extra bites stack. So this is all correct.
 
Tokek said:
Forgive any beginner mistakes here but I was thinking of taking the Knights in a Bloodclaw Starhost for all those heroes each getting their command benefit. It seems to me that it changes round a few things
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Yeah, the Bloodlaw is a really strong battallion, and it gives also a great flexibility in the kind on units you want to field, letting you the possibility to focus on different key units and tactics. :)

This tactica was written in march, when the only formations available were the ones of the Seraphon Battletome (and, regarding the formations, it's still valid, 'cause a beginner usually starts using what's included in the "army book").
Saurus warriors, Knights and Guards, they all benefit greatly from the Bloodclaw. It's just a matter of what do you want to accomplish.... and yours is a nice list. ;)
 
Killer Angel said:
SAURUS KNIGHTS​


Here they are, our cavalry!

These guys were not spawned to wait for the enemy, or stand their ground: if they don’t move, they’re useful like sitting ducks. Nope, they are our shock troops, the can opener that we employ against defensive lines, our quintessential aggressive unit.

Sadly, they’re not perfect:
They are an elit unit: you summon them less easily than warriors, and they come in fewer numbers.
They have move 7, and other armies have units much faster than them.
They should excel in breaking defensive lines, but there are units that are much more efficient then them in “damage dealing” (see goblins on spiders), while they just deal 1 attack for each model, and with no rend!
...However, you can work around it (for example, they can march at 14”, so this makes ‘em one of our fastest units, barring flying ones), and if you know what you’re doing, they can really shine. Let’s see how.

The first and last thing you need to remember, always, is: they must charge, and they cannot stay in close combat for more than 1 round. They have no rend, and they don’t deal so many attacks to sustain a long combat.

What weapons should they have?
Celestite Blade is 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound
Celestite Lance, is 4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, and you deal 1 mortal wound on a 6
Let’s say you are using a unit with the minimum number of models (5): tnx to the leader, you deal 6 attacks: with the perfect average rolls, your 6 attacks will roll: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
With the blades, it’s 4 hits, that need to be confirmed with a to wound rolls. No rend.
With the lances, it’s 3 hits, that need to be confirmed. But on a 6 to wound, you inflict a mortal wound.
When lances wounds, they are better.

How many should I field?
It’s clear that you’re counting on that magical 6 to inflict mortal wounds, so you need to deliver them in a sufficiently good number.
5 knights is the minimum required by a unit, but they do only 6 attacks. 10 Knights are better. More than 10, you risk to water down your impact, if the enemy exploits terrains (choke points and similar).

How good is their Formation?
If, for other troops, formations vary from “debatable” to “useful”, for them it’s mandatory.
Firstly, they’ll have a +3 on charge rolls (remember, you need to charge successfully)
Secondly, on a 6 to wound, they deal an additional mortal wound. So, it’s 2 mortal wound for each 6.
That’s good. Really good. It’s a pity we cannot increase our “to wound”, but we can work around it (see "heroes").

What heroes are good for them?
You need essentially 3 heroes for them to work.
Slann Starmaster: you need all the help you can get, and with the Great Drake constellation, you will re-roll the 1’s on to hit (thus increasing the "to wound" rolls, and the chances to roll 6)
The formation requires also a hero: a scar-vet (on cold one or on a carnosaur).
The command ability of the scarvet on cold one gives: additional attacks for cold one’ bites (kinda meh), reroll charges (useful but not decisive), reroll 1’s on to hit (we already have the constellation).
The command ability of the scarvet on carnosaur, gives: 1 additional attack each time you roll a 6 to hit (rerolling 1’s, so another chance to increase the number of subsequent "to wound"). Plus, the abilities of the carnosaur himself.
I’d normally pick the Scar-Vet on Carnosaur.
Skink Starseer. He’ll be useful in 2 different ways: with Cosmic Herald, he can reroll dices, so this means it will be harder to fail charges (thus making less useful the scar-vet on cold one). Then, with Curse of Fate on your knights, they will have a +1 on a dice for each phase… this not only means another +1 on charges’ distance, but you can have a +1 on a dice during the combat phase.
This may not seem great, but you only need to pick a 5 to wound, and make it a 6: that single +1 means 2 mortal wounds. I’d say the spell repays itself pretty nicely.

The tactic should be clear: you are going to chase and charge precious targets, possibly with low bravery, without fearing too much strong defensive formations, exploiting the bonuses you can have.
That unit of 20 Eternal Guards, that save at 3+, rerolling 1s and 2s? hit them with your 10 saurus: between re-rolls of 1s, additional attacks granted by the Scar-vet on Carnosaur, and the +1 of Curse of Fate, you’re going to deliver 4-6 mortal wounds (plus eventual normal wounds)… add the effect of the Stardrake Icon, and the shocking phase should give you nice results. And then you will also have the Carnosaur’s Bloodroar (with a possible re-roll granted by the Starseer), to panic more models.

How about the rest of the army?
You could fit a Troglodon, keeping it near the knights: not only it will help with the spittle, but it will serve as arcane vassal for your Slann (he’s slow and he will stay in the rearline), and the Primeval roar will stack with the effect of the Stardrake Icon, for further fleeing models.
And you can support your Knights with a Stegadon, for a bigger impact (visually and thematically, it would be a really nice army: what’s more terrifying, for the enemy, to be pressed by cavalry on small dinosaurs, and 3 big dinosaurs?).
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Hi guys ! I just started playing the game and I fell in love with the Saurus Knights and the Firelance Starhost.

Our local meta's just also shaping up, so we're probably going to be playing 1000 pointer games for starters. I've been reading this post and apparently it says if I want to play Firelance Starhost I really need those 3 heroes.

I sort of thought this would be different for 1000pts since there's no way we can fit those 3 and have 3 units of knights, and the starhost itself for under 1000, so I was looking for alternatives.

May I have some thoughts on this matter ? Thank you !
 
Killrain said:
I sort of thought this would be different for 1000pts since there's no way we can fit those 3 and have 3 units of knights, and the starhost itself for under 1000, so I was looking for alternatives.

May I have some thoughts on this matter ? Thank you !
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Yes, you cannot field all those heroes at 1000 pts. I would say that you cannot field the Slann with only 1000 pts, so it's the first one you need to sacrifice.
at 1000 pts, a possible couple of firelance starhosts could be:

- Scarvet on carno (general)
- Skink Starseer
- 5 knights
- 5 Knights
- 10 Knights

you lose 40 pts, but you will have a strong main unit of knights to charge some important target.

or:

- Scarvet on carno (general)
- Skink Starseer
- 5 knights
- 5 Knights
- 5 Knights
- 10 skinks
- 10 skinks

the good of this one is: you have 2 units of skinks that can offer some shooting (don't expect too much), are fast and can act as screen or can take objectives if your knights are doing more heavy duties. Basically, you have more battlefield control.
The skinks will be your battleline tax, so you can take the "seraphon Allegiance" and enjoy a command trait for your general and TWO artefacts for your heroes.
You can take the ability you like (probably I'd pick the one that let you re-roll run and charges, 'cause you wanna fast cavalry, right?) then give the scarvet the potion that let him attack first (so good when he's been charged!) and some life-saving to the starpriest.
 
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Killer Angel said:
The skinks will be your battleline tax, so you can take the "seraphon Allegiance" and enjoy a command trait for your general and TWO artefacts for your heroes.
You can take the ability you like (probably I'd pick the one that let you re-roll run and charges, 'cause you wanna fast cavalry, right?) then give the scarvet the potion that let him attack first (so good when he's been charged!) and some life-saving to the starpriest.
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Thank you for replying ! I'm not so sure about some things, please bear with me hehe :D

1. What is a battleline tax ?
2. What is Seraphon Allegiance ?
3. I'm not sure what "some lifesaving to the starpriest" means, maybe you mean Starseer ?

Tyvm !
 
Killrain said:
Thank you for replying ! I'm not so sure about some things, please bear with me hehe :D

1. What is a battleline tax ?
2. What is Seraphon Allegiance ?
3. I'm not sure what "some lifesaving to the starpriest" means, maybe you mean Starseer ?
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About 3: yes, my bad, it's Starseer.

1 and 2: we were talking about matched games with points, that are explained in the General's Handbook. I thought that you know it...
in games with points each unit got a role: battleline, hero, behemoth... battleline are the "core" unit. Minimum 2 battleline units at 1000 pts.
You can declare to field an army "Seraphon Allegiance", in this case your battleline are: skinks, saurus warriors, saurus knights, saurus guards.
Or you can field a "Order Allegiance". You can (not "must") use also other armies' units, but anyway your seraphon battleline will only be the skinks and the saurus warriors. But your general will have a special ability and you can give one or more artefacts of power to your heroes.
 
Killer Angel said:
Yeah, the Bloodlaw is a really strong battallion, and it gives also a great flexibility in the kind on units you want to field, letting you the possibility to focus on different key units and tactics. :)

This tactica was written in march, when the only formations available were the ones of the Seraphon Battletome (and, regarding the formations, it's still valid, 'cause a beginner usually starts using what's included in the "army book").
Saurus warriors, Knights and Guards, they all benefit greatly from the Bloodclaw. It's just a matter of what do you want to accomplish.... and yours is a nice list. ;)
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Wait.. there are more formtions for us?!? :O :O :O !!! WHERE ?? I sure am a noob but I' m reading as much as I can in our forum and I just bumbed to your comment.. where can I find these formations?? And why aren't they in the battletome??
Thanks in advance ! :P
 
Seraphage said:
Wait.. there are more formtions for us?!? :O :O :O !!! WHERE ?? I sure am a noob but I' m reading as much as I can in our forum and I just bumbed to your comment.. where can I find these formations?? And why aren't they in the battletome??
Thanks in advance ! :p
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You can purchase them in the app, some are in the order book.
 
Seraphage said:
Wait.. there are more formtions for us?!? :O :O :O !!! WHERE ?? I sure am a noob but I' m reading as much as I can in our forum and I just bumbed to your comment.. where can I find these formations?? And why aren't they in the battletome??
Thanks in advance ! :p
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we have different formations, scattered among different books.

2 in the original warscrolls compendium: Skink Patrol and Saurus Host

6 in Seraphon Battletome: Sunclaw Starhost, Eternal Starhost, Firelance Starhost, Shadowstrike Starhost, Thunderquake Starhost, Starbeast Constellation.

1 in Start Collecting!: Gul'rok's Starhost

2 in Order Battletome: Heavenswatch Starhost and Bloodclaw Starhost

1 in Godbeast: Klaq-Tor's Talon
 
Could you link me to Gul'rok's Starhost? And the Klaq'Tor's Talon one? :)

Also, where can I view new Starhosts? I would love to be updated on those :)
 
Killer Angel said:
Kroxigor are really good as choice in the Thunderquake formation.
If you give them the re-rollable saves and to wound, you only need a mystic shield to have a unit that saves at 3 rerollable, hits really hard and heals itself if near a Slann. Even with mortal wounds, you’ll have a hard time taking them down (unless you deal a lot of mortal wounds ).

They are perfect to shield EotG and the Slann.
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How can kroxx heal itself near slann?
 
milman said:
How can kroxx heal itself near slann?
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Every unit in the thunderquake Starhost heals d3 wound if within 10" of a Slann in the hero phase (1 wound if not).
Kroxi can be included in the starhost..
 
Killer Angel said:
Every unit in the thunderquake Starhost heals d3 wound if within 10" of a Slann in the hero phase (1 wound if not).
Kroxi can be included in the starhost..
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I found it to be pretty strong when playing them! However, unfortunately the save rerolls and wound rerolls only count in the combat phase. And when they have mortal wounds they will sadly shred through your poor Kroxii. Unless ofcourse you can screen them with Skinks like those old batallions (hence my idea for the Starvenom Starhost a few threads back in the battallion suggestion thread. So your Kroxigor can be put behind them).
 
Tokek said:
With the number of heroes needed i would be tempted to take two of these so that a unit going in will have 4 Cold One bites
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I thought you were only allowed to have one SV on CO (in a pitched battle). But, if you are allowed to have more than one, then if they have the same command ability, it stacks?
 
Only one can be general... So there is nothing to stack... The second one can't use his command ability...
 
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