9th Age 9th Age (beta) out now - check link in first post

[Pinktaco]

I'll make up a review when I've walked the dog so 30-40 minutes.

 

[Yrtomin]

My only real problem with this compendium is no poison on javelins. On skirimshers sure, but this affects cohorts aswell.

But like someone said, best thing to do is playtest.

 

[skink chief]

Take the bastilladon and now you can even have sauri with poisen and TG and....

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

9th Age has ruined my beloved Hellcannon ("Warpscream Cannon"). Movement has been reduced to 1, meaning that it can no longer effectively act as a monster. Worse yet, they removed the Chaos Dwarf crew alongside of the leadership 9 they brought to the table. Meaning that it has to test for frenzy on leadership 4. All the opponent has to do is park something just inside charge range and watch as the hellcannon helplessly fails its frenzy test, fails its charge and can not shoot. It is absolutely useless!

9th age has now effectively ruined my 2 favorite models (#1 Slann and #2 Hellcannon).

I doubt I'll be playing it at all. I was just floored to see the designers miss the basics of what makes Lizardmen, Lizardmen.
Also, I just mentioned the two big LM blasphemies involving the two biggest show pieces of our army. I'm sure they've gotten sufficient feedback regaurding the two already.

I agree that this is quite worrying, it seems like a very basic thing to slip up on.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Take the bastilladon and now you can even have sauri with poisen and TG and....

The Bastiladon is an absolute steal now. I'm thinking that it might be too good for its points cost.

 

[Pinktaco]

My only real problem with this compendium is no poison on javelins. On skirimshers sure, but this affects cohorts aswell.

But like someone said, best thing to do is playtest.

Wyssans Wildform on a unit of 14 skink javelin skirmisher in close range of T3 heavy armour elfs = 6 wounds done. Let them charge you and use stand and shoot reaction for another 4 wounds. You can strip away 10 wounds easily!

The issue is rather that blowpipes didn't see any love. This can be fixed. So if you want poison = blowpipes and murder machines against elf = javelins.

 

[Pinktaco]

9th Age has ruined my beloved Hellcannon ("Warpscream Cannon"). Movement has been reduced to 1, meaning that it can no longer effectively act as a monster. Worse yet, they removed the Chaos Dwarf crew alongside of the leadership 9 they brought to the table. Meaning that it has to test for frenzy on leadership 4. All the opponent has to do is park something just inside charge range and watch as the hellcannon helplessly fails its frenzy test, fails its charge and can not shoot. It is absolutely useless!

9th age has now effectively ruined my 2 favorite models (#1 Slann and #2 Hellcannon).



I agree that this is quite worrying, it seems like a very basic thing to slip up on.

You speak of things like they cannot be changed. People will react to this and the developers will figure it out. On of their very first thing to say about the project was that it was supposed to allow as many units as possible to be fielded. If the cannon turns out utterly useless they'll obviously change it. It's as simple as that.

Nothing is ruined since this is a beta.

 

[Pinktaco]

I posted this on the 9th age board:

I'm going to give my view on our new and updated army. My inititial impression is that it's a very good basis that we can improve upon.
I'm going to address all units and put them under catergories of Hot, lukewarm, cold.

Hot

Predatory Fighter now affects all models. Rerolling 1s are, to my fuzzy math better than the gaining another attack. I do, however, add more rerolls to the game so there's that.

Piranha sword, steggie helmet, cloak of feathers and cube are all the same and that's fine. They didn't need a change.

Characters

Oldbloods at Ld9 is great. I always found it akward that they were limited to Ld8. Price increase on saurus characters was justified and wasn't overdone. PF affect them just as much as the old PF rule so they didn't suffer a power loss there.

Skink characters are fine. I hope either Tiktak'to will be allowed to join rippers and terradons OR a change in the BRB which I proposed somewhere else on the forum. Allowing chief to mount steggie bolt thrower isn't super competitive, but funny in friendly games. Overall these guys didn't need much of a change.

Core

Saurus warriors benefit greatly from the changed weapon profiles. Rerollings 1s is better than previously so that's lovely. Magic banner is great - now we can opt for either triple movement banner or +1M banner so they can get into combat faster. With that said I think it's too extreme for these guys to be I1. I mean, really...? I2 wouldn't make them that much better in CC, but work as defence against initative spells. Also initative spells that work in our favor would have a bigger effect, I mean getting off +D3 initative on these guys when they're I1 is just not worth it.
Skink cohort also benefit from the new parry rule and their javelins now as S4 can allow for some new and interesting usage. WS3 I've yet to decide upon - I cannot quite figure out if it's a typo due to the inconsistiency of the book (other skinks have WS2).

Skink cohort with kroxigors recieved a buff. Removing 2/3 of the attacks directed at kroxigors is a solution that lands in the middle of the road compared to the 7th edition AB and 8th edition AB when played under the 8th edition BRB. Change in the fear rules also benefit these guys and then there's the fact that the new PF rule actually work in this unit, which it didn't before. Many small changes and hopefully they'll see more play.

Skink Skirmisher (javelins) are very intersting with their S4 javelins, although no poison. Wyssan's Wildform will see them at S5. Now that we're only allowed to duplicate units 4 times we could see somewhat larger skirmisher units (in the 12-14 model range). If at close range with wyssan's wildform those guys can easily remove 4-6 swordmasters or similar elves in one go. Potent!

Special

Templeguards remain the same although they're now immune to psychology without the frog. I'm okay with that. I do, however, hope that we can go for more flexibility and allow them to be 13pts with hw/s with halbards at 1pts. That would allow for a tanky unit with parry and AS3+ in close combat, which would also be cheaper by a bit. Just a suggestion.

Cold One Riders are great! I mean sure they still suffer from I2, but S6 on the charge at 30pts? Rerolling 1s? That's very nice. Also rerolling 1s on the mounts = even more wounds done and is there to differentiate them from the Dark Elf counterpart. Personally I find the light armour to be too expensive. At 40pts they're more expensive than a Chaos Knight who have WS5 and strikes at I4 and have 1+ save. Maybe keep it at 5-6pts? I just fear that people will steer away from 40pts cavalry models, but I could be wrong.

Kroxigors recieved full command which was great and a slight point decrease. In itself that is fine, but I think we can do more. Comparably we have the new minotaurs who have a ton more options and way more flexibility once on the board. Mark of Khorne with addition hand weapon = WS4 S6, 5A, I4 and impact hit as well. They can chop up most things in the game and can also take a magic banner so if granted flaming banner they'll remove any regen monsters.

If allowed to switch to halbard and take 25pts magic banner I think kroxigors would be in a good position.

Terradons are the same so that's fine . Upgrades to spear and shield is fine for these guys as it allow for some more options and I like having options.

Bastiladon though is the true winner. I'd even go as far as to say that the monster is an auto-include in most lists. 90pts for a +1WS monster with a bound spell and thunderstomp? DEAL. It's unfortunate that the flavor of the monster, however, was taken a bit away from it - the former special rules weren't good-good, but they fit the model. I hope this will be added back in the full book.

The poison upgrade is also perfect. I can see myself having both in some game. Kroxigors with poison and rerolling 1s should make for an interesting combo.

One suggestion: I'd easily take +10pts if the bast was given S5. Not more attacks, but S5 thunderstomp would be appropriate. It won't hit with the normal attacks, but at least it can stomp on squishy humans. S4 monster is just so so counter intuitive and hardly useful.
Rare

Salamanaders - Not much to say. They lost their skink handlers and 10pts. It's fine for these guys, but different for the razordons. I'll talk about them later.

Stegadon is uh.. I love the fact that it is much more useful, but I hate the fact that we lost a special monster. We need something back in special. We're a monster army and I think the 8th edition book had a good balance of 2 monsters in each section.

Suggestion: put the stegadon as is in special and add a carnosaur as rare monster. People on lustria a miffed about losing the baby steg in special.

Lukewarm

Characters

None

Core

Skink Skirmisher Blowpipes. I firmly believe that these guys somewhat got the short end of the stick. They're exactly the same and previously they didn't see much use. With javelins being S4 and have the improved parry this didn't change, despite being the only one of the two having poison.

I have several proposals:

- Quick to Fire.

- BS4.

- Move Cameleons to Core as a seperat unit and remove the BP option from skirmishers. 10pts base cost and +2pts for scout upgrade. This also mean they wouldn't interfere with terradons and allow for a more varied core section.

Special

Cameleon skinks did get a price reduction. It's "fine", but I'm currently hooked on the came skink in core idea so I'm biased lol. These guys remained the same and in most ways that's okay I suppose.

Snake Swarms in special is going to be overlooked for sure. Their special rule is now better, but that won't quite change our look on them. Price reduction was good as well, but move to core and people might actually take them. We just have so many good options in special.

Rare

Troglodon. Well it got the price reduction it deserved and that's good, but the engine from the bastiladon comes off as lazy. I mean it's interesting that it's a faster bastiladon that can keep up with our cavalry for that +1WS, but overall I think I hoped to see something else. Someone proposed the troglodon should have the roar to be frenzy or something like that. That would be more interesting and fit better with the fluff.

Also it need +1A the way I see it. 3A on such a big monste? It's just akward and doesn't fit the model. Give it +1A and a roar that grants 1 nearby model + the troglodon itself frenzy or something like that.

Personally I think the spit should be a small round template doing S3 wounds with no armour save or something like that. Or maybe S2 no AS. I think hitting just one model is very meh. Just suggestions of course.

It is, however, much more usable, but with the bastiladon sitting at 90pts I'm not sure I'd want the troglodon.

Cold

Characters

The Slann saw an unecessary nerf. Do remember that the Slann got a MAJOR nerf back from 7th to 8th edition. The Slann under 8th edition AB was powerful and flexible due to the disciplines. He was by no mean overpowered because of a base price of 300pts and you'd quickly find him at 4-450pts with disciplines and the BSB. The slann is our center piece and why people LM. They want the slann and the monsters. Nerfing the slann because he's taken a lot isn't the way to go about thinks - make skink priests a better alternative and not the slann a worse one.

The solution is simple though. Allow us to take 4 disciplines and put in 1-2 more disciplines. Preferably the same amount as previously where they're all useful. I've already seen the first two members of Lustria Online declare they won't be playing 9th Age with this change so the Slann is very important for LM players.

I think the 8th edition AB Slann was good, powerful and not overpowered. He mostly sufferend from a slew of bad discipines (healing, terror, etheral, magic resistance) which just needed fixing. For further details check my previous post in this thread about the Slann.

Core

None.

Special

Lack of baby steg or a substitute. To be honest I'm happy about all the other useful addition, but this still sting a little. I'd say it's between lukewarm and cold.

Rare

None.

Leftover:

The Razordon. I need to understand the rules better so I didn't put it in,

All in all I'm VERY happy for this. I cannot wait to play and use all our units, especially the bastiladons.

 

[Pinktaco]

It took some time for me to understand the new razordon so here's how I think it works:

It now have 2D6 shots, but suffer no penalty from - so it still hits at 5+ on long range. 2D6 ~ 7 hits with is approximately 1 more than previously, but with a greater chance of misfire. The first misfire result = -1 To Hit and the second = -1W.

I'd say the change didn't do its job because now we're left with smaller units (1-3 models) and we didn't get that much of a benefit and what little we got was hampered by double miscast result.

On top of that you'd normally take up to 6 razordons in a unit. That meant they'd be accompanied by 18-24 skinks in close combat (unless some died on the way). Skinks are silly in CC, but that many skinks will add to the overall combat resolution, but not anymore..

On top of that we lost the "ward" and gained a price reduction. I'm not sure that's going to fix anything.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

You speak of things like they cannot be changed. People will react to this and the developers will figure it out. On of their very first thing to say about the project was that it was supposed to allow as many units as possible to be fielded. If the cannon turns out utterly useless they'll obviously change it. It's as simple as that.

Nothing is ruined since this is a beta.

I understand that things can be changed. I understand that this is a beta. I understand that they plan to listen to the community. However this guarantees nothing. I can only judge things the way they are currently presented in the released document. There are still many questions and considerations to make when thinking of what changes might appear as they move from the beta to the finished product...

• what will be changed?
• will the changes improve or detract from the game?
• how long will it take for the changes to be implemented?
• will community involvement be of a benefit? (there are many players out there with unrealistic expectations)
• how will the non-beta version compare with 8th?
• how many players are going to jump on board?

So far I see some good changes, some okay changes and some very poor changes. At the current moment in time I personally wouldn't give up 8th edition for this game. Things could of course change, and I plan to re-evaluate the situation as new information is presented. I do feel that the longer it takes for the polished version of 9th age to be released the less people will accept it (as they move on to other games in the mean time).


On a different note, does anyone else feel that the Bastiladon is too powerful now for its points cost? I'd imagine non-lizardmen players might cry cheese.

 

[Khelandros]

I just wish blowpipes had BS4 or maybe quick to fire. I'd prefer BS4 .______.

And yeah wyssans Wildform on those and we're looking at S5. Javelins actually hit as hard as the razordon now haha.

It could be strength 6 with just 1 casting by also using the lore attribute on them.

I haven't read the new rules, but didn't "Strength as User" use the unmodified character strength in 8th? Kinda curious how it works now.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

On a different note, does anyone else feel that the Bastiladon is too powerful now for its points cost? I'd imagine non-lizardmen players might cry cheese.

Maybe, if you win comabt against it it is probably going to flee, it just gives a better buff to combat, but also comes with a worse spell.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

The Skinks with Javelin can get poisoned attakcs, just take a Bastiladon (it would of course slow the unit down if it wanted the poison).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Maybe, if you win comabt against it it is probably going to flee, it just gives a better buff to combat, but also comes with a worse spell.

But it is only 90 points!! Use it as a buff wagon and keep it behind your lines. It will handle its own quite well against most things that are around 90 points in cost. The types of small units that typically get behind your lines will have a hard time taking it down. At its points cost it can also take on chaff responsibilities.

Under these rules I would say that it is an auto include... probably 1 of each variant.

 

[Pinktaco]

Yup, Bastiladon is an auto-include. It's almost as cheap as 10 skink skirmishers.

 

[DanBot]

Let's talk Bastiladon, Did 9th age get it right or did they miss the mark again?
For me, he doesn't fit in my "hot" section. Between warm and cold for me. This guy for me furthers the notion that the designers don't get LM and LM players at all. Bastiladon isn't a corpse cart. Can we get some combat effectiveness out of this monster? +1 str, Stubborn, Unbreakable, or better something unique along those lines. Clearly GW's 8th designers made an attempt with the whole "no flanks" and armor save. Which is just flavor to the 9th Bastiladon. Just useless special rules that will never matter in a game. It's too weak and too valuable to see any combat now. Keep the buff and bound spell small. Leave the troglodon as the ranged buff monster, the yin to the carno's yang. I understand Bastiladon is now much better and very good, but I'd rather play something fun than good. And for god sakes enhance the troglodon. Turn him into the buff/range monster his price tag calls for. Don't lower his points. It's our army's most expensive kit! This is not the Troglodon we want. This is not fitting. This is not headed in the right direction. What are they doing? Missed opportunities. D:
As a tweak I'd rather see him receive +1 attack, +1 toughness, +1 move and keep his points. It's not nearly right or a good fix. It's more of a half assed try. But at least it's in the right direction, UP! I could see where they're heading. But they just completely missed again.

Change their focus onto what makes Lizardmen, Lizardmen. Make Lizards what they should be. Then work on balancing what is too good and too cheap. Stay true to the armies. Focus on fun. Make a fun game.

 

[DanBot]

Templeguards remain the same although they're now immune to psychology without the frog. I'm okay with that. I do, however, hope that we can go for more flexibility and allow them to be 13pts with hw/s with halbards at 1pts. That would allow for a tanky unit with parry and AS3+ in close combat, which would also be cheaper by a bit. Just a suggestion.

God yes. At least make it optional that they can use the HW they brought and that is included in their kit. The point per model would be an added benefit, but the option is something that should obviously be included in our only special rank and file unit. We only have 3 rank and file units total.
I am pretty sure this was something the 8th core book accidentally took away from them, and I don't believe the 8th LM rule book really captured LM either. So they just flat missed it.

Also, While on the TG subject I should add that I have only taken a Slann bunkered in a TG unit a hand full of times. The first time it blew up my TG back in 7th, and I now rarely do. And now with predatory fighter, with spears and a slann taking up the 2nd rank, I find them too weak compared to saurus (Not overpriced. Too weak). Further, I only bring a slann in about half my games. Only when needed to enjoy the game do I bring one. I bring this up because I don't really like the slann, But even to me the nerf is over the top, and clearly crippling to our play and enjoyment of the game. It's hard to see how they could rationalize this having ever picked up a LM book or seen a LM army. Of course my frame of reference excludes changes to other army's wizards and changes to the core rules to the slann's benefit, but only seeing such minor tweaking. I don't imagine their is any justification there either.

 

[Mr Phat]

First of: Bastiladon has never been meant to be combat monster. I don't get where that idea comes from.
It is inherently a support unit who can alternatively cover main-blocks flank from flankcharges.
Even its name basicly means Fortress.

What the 9th age guys did to it is REALLY good for our army.
+1 WS will push a lot of our units ahead of the opposition, as they will hit on 4+ and we still have our extra, now re-rollable, attacks.
add in poison attacks and a Saurus horde suddenly gets ultra violent.

+1 str, Stubborn ? You already got that monster, the stegadon.

The trog however is hard to grasp...its still not a fighter, a shooter or a proper buff wagon.
I dont get that it is supposed to carry a Solar Engine as well. I think its a typing error.
That it gets to re-roll 1s now is pretty good combined with its poison attacks, but it needs +1 Attack to be worth much.
I still think it needs a complete overhaul, which I hope will come with the next level of army books.


Why the hate on Templeguard?
They have better circumstances than a lot of other infantry.
WS4 S5, A2 (re-roll 1s) T4 with an 4+ AS is pretty solid in my book.

....and...remember that thing that just happend to high magic?
you know, that attribute that gets us "IGNORE WOUND!" counters?
and then there is that spell that gives a straight out ward-save.


I see : lets check it out before we decide its not good enough

 

[Mr Phat]

yup! passed my LD test!
Im cool about it all!

 

[Yrtomin]

Im probably going to kit my slann with Essence of the Freemind and Master of Mystery. Seems like a pretty sick combo.
Also, why the hate on having stegadon in rare? Is it because you want to run more than 2 in one army?