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8th Ed. Your Lore choice Vs...

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Leokill27, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    As a fairly new lizardmen player, I've been looking at the lores of magic, and finding myself a little confused from time to time.

    I have about 6 close friends who got me into Warhammer, one of which owns a table, so we get lots of game time. We're all different armies and sometimes I find myself using a lore I'm not familiar with against a certain army, because I'm told of a certain advantage I might gain from said lore, but end up cocking up because I'm not using the spells as they should. Now as a newbie to this awsome community, I beseech your collective wisdom.

    My army is a Slann based list, with a skink priest on an ancient Stegadon. So I'm carrying two full lores as the EOTG and the Slann both have the *Loremaster* special rule. So my thinking is usually, an aggressive lore on my Slann, Focus of rumination and cupped hands of the old ones makes my casting strong, and a supporting lore on my Stegadon, usually life or light. Is my thinking viable in a 2000 point / 2500 point game

    Also Im usually up against one of the following armies. Or occasionally, two, if we play 2v2's. Again i typically carry these lore's against them

    Dark elves --- Fire / Life
    High elves --- Fire / Life
    Empire --- Light / Metal -- (Played this once, Wasn't super effective as i had hoped however)
    Ogre Kingdoms --- Shadow / Fire
    Chaos warriors --- Light / Metal
    Chaos demons --- TBD - have yet to play


    Bearing in mind I have a Lore on the Stegadon and also on the Slann. Along side the Skink Priest.

    I'll wait to see what I get back from you guys, Meanwhile ill read up on the Lores of magic. :D
     
  2. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    Wait, you have loremaster on the stegadon? I'm 99% sure you can't do that, the skink priest must always take heavens. Yes the engine has the ability to boost any lore in the game, but note that it does not give that lore to the priest it merely boosts it for if your Slann is using it. A Slann is the only way you can have a lore besides heaven.

    And finally, in 8th ed you are technically meant to choose your lore before you know what army you are facing. In small gaming groups you will often know exactly what you are going to face, so it can become a bit of a pointless rule. But it is worth picking a general lore that oyu really like using and stick with it against everyone. The two favourites for Slann are light and life, both are well worth a look.

    Anyway, welcome to the board and the Lizardmen! Always good to have new players around. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like, the game does have a lot of rules that can be difficult to get your head around.
     
  3. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    After a lightning re read, yeah just lowers the casting value by 1 for a lore, A total misread on my part. The Stegadon has only been used in 2 games, but I'll have to swiftly apologize for this.

    So the EOTG boosts the skink priest from level 1-2 or 2-3 if upgraded only then the effects of the EOTG as in the lizard codec? Also, this addition level on the skink priest will not effect spell generation at the beginning of the game correct?

    Thanks a bunch by the way, feel like a fool for such an oversight, but hell, thats why I joined the community anyway. Gotta start somewhere. :)
     
  4. novatomato
    Razordon

    novatomato Member

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    In essence yes, but without gaining the extra spell from being a level higher. So a level one priest will still only have one spell and a level two will still only have two.
    We can effectively make them the full level higher by giving the EOTG priest the plaque of Tepok as well.


    Welcome to the board, we'll all friendly here so don't worry about making mistakes.
     
  5. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Oh yeah, Plaque of tepok, never thought of that, thanks!

    Currently working on a new army list for 2000 points, just clipping 2003, I'll work to refine it and get it up for any criticisms anyone might have. :)

    Another question, Saurus spearmen, Worth the extra 1 point per model? I only have 16, but thats still effectively two ranks with full attacks?
     
  6. novatomato
    Razordon

    novatomato Member

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    thats two full ranks of attacks until you lose two (asuming three ranks of five plus one) for those low numbers I'd say keep the hand weapon.

    I find the happy point in which to put spears in is when you have lots of ranks to absorb the losses OR when your slann has lore of life as he can resurrect the dead ones.
     
  7. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Well with a revised look at the lore, life seems to be a strong contender. I think I'll try dropping the spears for a game or switching my block around, I could fit 20 spears in.

    My list at 2000 points is as follows

    Slann
    BSB - Discipline standard
    Focus of mystery
    Focused rumination
    Becalming cogitation
    Cupped hands of the old ones

    Skink priest
    Level 2
    Ancient Stegadon

    Saurus Warrior x20
    Full command

    Saurus Spears x16
    Full command

    Skink skirmishers x24

    Temple Guard x10
    Full command

    Terradon Rider x3

    Cold One Cavalry x5
    Full command

    Any suggestions? Overall I'm quite happy with this, however, I do miss my salamander :)
     
  8. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    Just thinking about it... The extra level doesn't really prove much anymore now that power dice are random rather than generated by the model? I hadn't considered it before because not many people use an engine of the gods in 8th ed.

    Leokill, you are better off just taking a normal ancient stegadon and if you want a priest then have him on foot, maybe with the flying cloak. And it is almost one of the 10 commandments now that every list must include at least 1 salamander, more in larger games. :p Definitely find room to put a couple in.

    Definitely save spears for the large 25+ units, but which one is better is mostly personal preference and both can work really well. Hand weapon seems to be a touch more popular now due to the parry save. Plus the hand weapons just look fantastic. :)

    Alright a few point saving tips to get a salamander in. Get the command off the Cold Ones. In a unit of 5, they are definitely in the realm of medium cavalry, they won't harm anything from the front so keep their points low and use for flanking. The other way is to go up to 7-8 models, full command, maybe scar vet but its a lot of points.
    A unit of 24 skink skirmishers is too big. Make them 2 units of 12, then if you want to save a few points you can drop the unit size to 11 or 10 where they are still effective.

    And don't worry about making mistakes, everyone does to start with. As long as your battles are fun and fair, it doesn't matter. As you each gradually discover new rules and find things you have been doing wrong, you will get better and better at the rules.
     
  9. Juhaaha
    Razordon

    Juhaaha Member

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    Light always over life, helps a lot more against shooty armies.
     
  10. Hiv0r
    Chameleon Skink

    Hiv0r New Member

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    Just to make it clear,

    you are aware too that not only does the stegadon not have the loremaster ability he must infact only take Heavens magic.

    If you can pick your lore before the match though a general quick rule. If they are elves take Life (dwellers munches them)
     
  11. HoverBoy
    Ripperdactil

    HoverBoy New Member

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    For freinds – Light.
    For tourney wankers – Life.
     
  12. Hiv0r
    Chameleon Skink

    Hiv0r New Member

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    Could not have put it any better myself =P
     
  13. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Now, yeah :)

    And the 24 Skinks I am using was intended to be in two units of 12. Just typed it in as 24 XD

    Dropping the command on the Cavalry and spears on the Saurus, bringing in a normal Stegadon and giving my Skink priest the cloak of feathers and plaque of Tepok (also he's level 2) Gives me room for a Salamander :)

    In fact I'm hitting 1994, which I would be fine in the friendly games I normally play anyway
     
  14. strewart
    OldBlood

    strewart Well-Known Member

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    Sweet, definitely worthy changes IMO.

    Overall Life is good, but not game breaking... I don't think you can say it is just for overpowered lists. However, when I took it on my book of Hoeth archmage, yeah it was a bit prickish. Similarly, it would be rather powerful on a supped up Slann.
     
  15. Spiney Norman
    Kroxigor

    Spiney Norman New Member

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    Not strictly true, I think Tehenhauin can ride an engine of the gods, he uses the lore of beasts, also Mazdamundi rides a steg and he can use any one of the 8 lores he pleases. However, I don't think either of them is a lore-master (actually Lord Maz might be, never really use the LM special characters).
     
  16. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Reading through a few other topics, I'm beginning to wonder if 10 temple guard is enough.

    Im never normally at risk from a rear, or even flank charge, as I usually centre my TG in my battle line, and if something breaks through, I can reform to face them. I know its been covered in another topic, but is 10 TG really enough? I would think so, playing my empire friend the other day I managed to kill 26 out of 30 of one of his "parent" unit, cant remember exactly what they were. Causing them to flee and I managed to chase them down, I lost 5 TG bringing back 4 with throne of vines / regrowth / lore attribute (btw, really digging life thanks guys :D)

    Even at that, I can tell I was extremely lucky, I was rolling on top form. So back to my main point, is 10 suitable, or should I run to get another box of 10?
     
  17. Hiv0r
    Chameleon Skink

    Hiv0r New Member

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    I would say a minimum unit size is about 16 if your 5 wide. This is a BARE minimum IF your taking the lore of life (so you can regrowth them etc)

    This will give you 4 ranks and complete all round protection on your slann.

    With any other lore the bare minimum that is effective is 20 otherwise your precious high point slann and templeguard are VERY vaunerable.
     
  18. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Yeah, that seems to be about right. Ill be waiting for payday to grab some then XD. Till then I'll have to hold out with 10
     
  19. BEEGfrog
    Razordon

    BEEGfrog Member

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    I tend to have a MINIMUM of 21 TG but I use them very aggressively due to habits picked up using the old 5th ed combat monster slann. And that is using life...
     
  20. Leokill27
    Razordon

    Leokill27 New Member

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    Even now, I think aggro TG would work really well, Even with 10 people tend not to want to tangle with them :)
     

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