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9th Age Wishlist for September

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by Mr Phat, Jun 19, 2016.

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I am excited for what september brings

  1. I have poor expectations.

    7 vote(s)
    26.9%
  2. I am pretty coldblooded.

    8 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. Looking forward to it!

    10 vote(s)
    38.5%
  4. I am super stoked!

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  1. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Hey scalemates!

    I have been a bad lizard and neglected you guys for too long, so I will try to get back into the jungle
    from which I were born! :D

    as re-opener I would like you guys to put in your wishes and ideas for changed in the September update
    (which is slowly getting on the table)

    For you with a profile on the 9th forum, you can do it here

    If not: put your thoughts here and I will do my best to pass them on :D


    I will try to do a markup here of what is being proposed!
     
  2. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    RESERVED FOR MARKUP

    CORE
    - Skinks
    both skirmisher and poison shooting back.


    SPECIAL
    - Raptor Riders
    Problem: Surviveability
    Improved, but how?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  3. DrMad
    Skink

    DrMad Member

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    -Skink skirmishers with poisoned javs back in core!
    -Improve saurus cav
     
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  4. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    The skinks gives itself, but do you have any possible solutions for the Saurus cav? :)

    "Improved" can mean a lot of things!
     
  5. DrMad
    Skink

    DrMad Member

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    Maybe give them light armor. Makes them a tad more survivable. (Temple Guard have it so why not?)
     
  6. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Im really thinking two wounds, as vampire knights got.
     
  7. airjamy
    Bastiladon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have our beloved skirmishing poisonous bastards back! :D. I'm sure they will cost a fortune now, but they are worth it. Tbh, i feel as if Knights are fine as they are, having 2 attacks on the Raptors is a pretty big deal. They are pretty expensive i guess for what you get, but they feel like ok middle of the road units now. That said, maybe i am biased towards them as i also played them in 8th where they were pretty underpowered :)
     
  8. Niarg
    Skink

    Niarg Member

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    Core:
    Skirmishing Poisoned Skinks. Trying to rank up GW models just makes me sad.

    Special:
    Temple Guard get great weapons or +1 armour.
    Currently I have the choice between +1ws or +2 mv, +1str and optional upgrades for exactly the same points per wound cost...

    Raptors get some love. Not sure how to fix them but I really want to field them without being disappointed.
    I don't think that a 1+ armour save would make me like them any more, for me it's the fact that 1-2 wounds being plinked off makes the whole unit afraid to do anything. Combined with the fact that there's always the potential for them to just do nothing on a crucial turn and that spears are so common it makes cavalry a risk to field. I like the multi wound idea but won't that give them synergy with Caimens and mean that our special choices are even more decided for us?

    Characters:
    Does anyone field saurus characters on foot in 9th age? I feel that raptors are still the only way to go as I don't think we have enough good monsters* to prevent them from just taking out the good ones before they reach combat.

    * I don't have any Trogs so I can't field them :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  9. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Not that I dont follow you guys thoughts myself, but we need some "This unit needs this, because = _____".

    The guys in Balancing team who have to ultimately approve changes need reasoning, as they are not necessary Saurian players themselves :)
     
  10. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    CORE

    If field testing has shown they have poor surviveability and this has caused them to be ignored in favor of other Special Types solve that by moving them to Core. Also, drop the cost of them by 1 point per model...(continue this at each rules iteration until the balance of cost/fighting value is found).
     
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  11. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    +1 more to all that. Also, allow skinks to rediscover bows. All armies, not just Southland.

    By the formula:
    Skinks need skirmisher and poison, because those capabilities were always part of the LM standard flavor and it just seems wrong to lack them.

    Skinks need bows, because millions of those models were produced for the LM army and if players can't defy Games Workshop's marketing tactic of obsoleting old models to sell new ones what is the point of player controlled rules?
     
  12. Rokanos
    Kroxigor

    Rokanos Well-Known Member

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    I haven't gotten to test the raptor riders much, but my initial gut reaction to them is that they need a minor reduction in cost or, as stated by others, moved to core. If I could take them in core I wouldn't hesitate to take them.

    I wouldn't mind seeing saurus warriors getting spears for 1pt each instead of 2 since they are the only unit that can take them I believe (and in turn that would make them possibly a little more attractive as an option)

    And of course I will echo the skinks getting their skirmish and poison back (even if it is at increased cost), because the way they are right now I doubt I'll ever take them in core. I'll second the bows as well.



    Side note: I may just be overlooking something (or i'm completely dense), but the champion upgrade on the Stygiosaur - does this make it a caster or does it act as a bound spell? On the same subject, can we get a minor formatting fix for that. It is a little misleading as is (spacing makes it seem like the champion upgrade is just 60 pts for no reason and the magic is something entirely separate).
     
  13. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    -Skinks already have acces to short bows ;)

    - yes, the champion upgrade makes him a lvl 2 caster with those two spells. No bound :)

    Regarding core raptors, it would be interesting to see how that would play out. I WOULD LOVE to try it, and it seems like a lot of people agree.
     
  14. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    o_O
    :)
    :cool:

    ***starts list: Reasons To Like 9th Age***
     
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  15. Rokanos
    Kroxigor

    Rokanos Well-Known Member

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    Hmm.. Good to know! (could we possibly get some clarification on that in the future rendition?)


    Sure enough...looked back at skink braves and they do have access to bows....I feel extra dense now..lol


    I'd love to have our raptors be +1 Movement as well, but that's just wishful thinking :D

    Also - Stygiosaur mount for our skink casters. (mostly because I want to take 4 stygs in a list...i just love the model)
     
  16. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Its in the core rules mate :D its how wizard conclaves work.

    I have been wondering about the stygiosaur mount for priests myself.
     
  17. Rokanos
    Kroxigor

    Rokanos Well-Known Member

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    :confused: Guess I need to read more thoroughly, though to me the whole new layout of rules is rather muddled, but that's probably just because I was so used to the GW layout. Thanks for the info! I'll go read through it now :D
     
  18. protector
    Temple Guard

    protector Active Member

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    Major Change
    This main idea may make the lizard community bash me but I think it will simultaneously solve multiple issues. I would remove the cold blooded rule from all non-character models in our army, and modify the rule so that characters grant it to units they join, and the frog has a special rule that grants it according to his leadership bubble.

    This would lower the cost of every unit across the board (9th Age always makes you pay for rules even if not used), it would give an incentive to field on foot characters and more basic non fully tooled out characters, and it would immediately give the frog an extremely solid reason to field him instead of just the magic phase. There are a couple units that I think could use a bump in leadership to offset this though, I think ld6 should be the minimum in our army. On a side note there should be some historic reference to how much 9th Age decided cold blooded rule was worth to each unit and I'm guessing it was pretty pricey.

    This would essentially reduce points for:
    1) skinks in core bringing them more in line for their stats
    2) saurus which would then bring their efficiency up and allow other options
    3) raptor riders which are already grossly overcosted
    4) temple guard who never ever needed the rule anyways
    5) etc

    That basically covers the change to the frog for me, I like the idea of fixing his low cost disciplines, removing his inherent 4+ ward save, and allowing a palaquin upgrade with temple guard stats like VS war litter.

    Raptor Riders
    There have been a few good ideas, like adding wounds, adding initiative to charging lances, etc. For me I think adding in a chasing prey rule, where all casualties are taken out at initiative 0. Everyone I have heard is not saying that they die too easily but that they die before they can hit, this allows the enemy to hit at their full ability as normal, does not increase any survival, but does allow for maximum damage on our part. So that should be a fairly low cost option to add, unlike hitting before others (which then allows for less of our guys dying and possibly upsets other balances). I also think they are extremely overcosted even after adding this rule, elf cold ones have almost the exact same damage output and stats as us (1 less attack but their attack hits a lot more often) and are much much cheaper.

    Skinks
    I'm not really that concerned about skirmishing and poison, I like the hunters as they are and I would like to see additional hand weapons back. But they are overcosted in combat, they need a significant point decrease if they have no poison shooting option taken. The other option is to buff their stats to minimum close combat, ie WS3, T3 after that they would be viable as they have already been fed close combat synergies.

    Saurus
    I really like where they have been moving towards, I would like the totems worked a bit more and a slight point decrease, and for saurus characters to be able to buff the unit. But overall a good spot, spears need to be 1 point, yes they are a better offensive weapon, but the benefits to parry are so significant to this unit it really has made no sense to any of my games with them to pay 2pts for spears, even at 1pt I will probably only include spears 1/3 games.

    Temple Guard
    These guys need some serious help, I would like to see it in the form of options like WotDG chosen have, so let them get GWs (the models would already support the idea) and heavy army. Totems possibly to improve things like predatory fighter, initiative, movement. Their points right now are overcosted, but I could see increasing their overall points with some options selected and it being at a good spot, if saurus have elite stats then elite saurus should be expensive and deadly. Side note, removing cold blooded from them would free up points to make them better fighters.

    Born Predator
    I like the re-rolling ones, it gives a more consistent output than adding attacks on a 6, but I think I wouldn't mind it changing again either. So if it is going to change this is my idea:

    Add paired weapon rule to any model fighting with a shield and devastating/thunderous charge to any model without a shield. It would function a lot like the ogres ironfist rule except it wouldn't give parry rules. When swapped for the current rule I think a point increase would be justified, but it would add initiative and an attack, we would function more like savage orc eadbashers. It would benefit MSU playstyles more but also add key opponent counters.

    the idea is that saurus can use anything as a weapon especially their shields and I think it is unique and fills the gap our saurus have been feeling for the last few editions. It would also work with current models, and could instead be a totem but it might be too powerful when combined with the current predatory fighter rule.

    Summary
    So there you have it, major changes to cold blooded and born predator, I think born predator would inflict a cost increase from the current rule (Still not as good as ogre ironfist, more on par/slightly better than orc +1 S). But removing cold blooded from all units would also bring a fairly massive point decrease, please think about all that we could do with those points and just what units would be effected and how you could work around it before starting the tar and feathers on me :)
     
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  19. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    I have some ideas, but they're somewhat different :D
     
  20. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    Fire away, oh taco of pink!
     

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