i shall be playing it as no they can't, unless there are some supporting arguments to them being 1 model and not 2. also, slann may be classed as infantry, but the FAQ rulings on Transformation of Kadon and using the magic carpet lends support to the "not on foot" argument . Not that i agree with it, I was very much looking forward to 2 slann dragons.
one base =/= one model. specific example: skaven screaming bell/plague furnace. if you read their FAQ and army book, it states specifically that the bell/furnace counts as a seperate model (i.e. a mount). have fun with the flying steggies though
We're veering a little off topic when talking about what counts as separate models. The spell description makes no mention of the word "model". The target is simply "the wizard or a friendly character within 12." So what do they mean by character? They just need to add 1) "(but not mounted characters)" or 2) "including his mount, if any." Until then, play it the way you think it is intended.
the thing is, it is only targeting the character, and not the mount, to say the spell targets one thing, and suddenly targets another is silly. And while I can see that GW could be more clear about the spell, the wording of the fluff(though not officially applicable) kinda makes it seem like it shouldn't be targeting mounted characters(and by mounted, I mean mounted on cavalry, not monstrous, chariots, etc)
For those of us without books in front of us right now, can someone please post the spells wording in its entirety? That way those of us who are at work and pretending to be working can read it. Having the massive rule book on my desk is not conducive to the charade that I am in fact doing my job.
" steed of shadows is an augment spell that can be cast on the wizard or a frendly charecter within 12". the target immediatly makes a move using the Fly special rule as if it were the remaining moves sub-phaze" there you are
Cheers Walgis. I so want this to be true I would next look at the main Rule Book for Combined Units, as well as look to see if there is anything written in other augment spells that specify that they effect only rider, mounts or indeed both. You know if monster and rider tested for everything independently, I would say that the rider would fly off and leave the monster behind, which he of course cannot and there for this little trick would not work. But looking at Rules as Written in the description it looks to me that a character and his ridden monster could make a fly move.: "Steed of shadows is an augment spell that can be cast on the wizard or a friendly character within 12". the target immediately makes a move using the Fly special rule as if it were the remaining moves sub-phase." I am still skeptical but I will certainly research further. I am salivating at the idea of a Chief with the War Spear on an Ancient running havoc in someone’s back field.
I think it would be better to use it with kroq-gar to get himself in range for his god hand, or even an engine of the god to use its ability. As nice as a chief with a spear is, it's not as dangerous the turn you use the spell(especially since you don't get a charge off it). As far as other augments goes, theres only 2 other ones that just pick out a character(out of the BRB) and those are pann's pelt and beast of horros, which both target the character. I'm thinking GW really needs to FAQ this, but lets be a little honest with ourselves, they aren't that good at it.
so on further investigation: Page 104 of the Main Rule Book - A character and mount are treated as a Single Character Model for all rules purposes... It then goes on about shooting at Monsters, can not join units, template hits and so on. So yes a Character ridden Monster can fly via Steed of Shadows! I am so using this ASAP!
Yeah that would be better, but no Special Characters are used in my local shop, but I can see a use for this in the Ard Boyz!
Thanks for this find! it would be cool to use it on Kroq but think the point needed to get a slann and kroq, not very often. EOTG is another good idea but imo D6 S4 per unit isnt much, espesialy againts war machines as you now use T of the machine. and i like to use the EOTG for 5+ ward againts warmachines, quite usefull the other usege mith be a tooled up oldblood for back charge in ongoing combat, that would boost your CR For now its the warspear dude that i find the most usefull
under ridden monster "if a character has a ridden monster, the whole model is treated as having the trop type monster and thus follows all the rules for both characters and monster models." would this not change the type from "character" to "monster" and thus preclude the use of this spell on him?
While you are correct that it would change troop type; it would be from “Infantry” (model on foot) to “Monster” it would not change his status as a Character ; it is just his troop type that has changed. In the wording of the spell there is no mention of excluding a specific troop type. …can be cast on the wizard or a friendly character… so I don’t think it matters as long as it is has the tag of Character; he and his mount can fly.
alright, lets try this then. steed of shadows: " steed of shadows is an augment spell that can be cast on the wizard or a frendly charecter within 12". the target immediatly makes a move using the Fly special rule as if it were the remaining moves sub-phase" Ridden monster and special rules: we assume that special rules that apply to a ridden monster do not normally also apply to the character riding it, and vise versa(with the same exceptions that apply to cavalry give on page 82). cavalry special rules exceptions(paraphrased): 1. if part causes fear/terror, it all does 2. if art is stupid, it all must test. 3. if either is immune t psychology, fear, terror, or panic it all is. 4. if part is subject to frenzy, it all gets berserker rage, but not the extra attacks. now, since the steed is a move using the fly special rule, and it s targeting the characer, and not his mount, its effectively a movement as though the character had flight(tho though mount does not). even though the whole thing is one model, the spell itself is only targeting the character
Again where it is not specifically stated I would refer back to: Page 104 of the Main Rule Book - A character and mount are treated as a Single Character Model
man if you dont want to fly the stegadon then just dont. Your diging quite too deep to negate the effect that is for sure too mane people that is right. Or are you the type of guy that says that whenever you let fanatic out not on hill he dies instanly because he hits "terrain" called open ground? The bottom line yes the steg can fly, unless faqd. or meiby you would like to say that terradons cant fly because skinks doesnt have the fly special rule?
I'm saying that whether its a single model or not, its not targeting the model, only 1 part of it. if it said, anywhere in the spell anything about a model, I'd agree with you, but it doesn't, and you've provided no rules based evidence about anything that targets JUST THE CHARACTER from suddenly targeting the character, AND this other target as well. Is it 1 model, yes Can you shoot them separately, also yes, although, not always directly(see oxyotl's snipe et all) Can spells affect both of them separately? also yes, although most that do, generate some effect that is shared by both aspects of the model(terror, stupidity etc) What you seem to be forgetting, is that while its 1 MODEL, you aren't targeting both parts, your targeting 1 part, and not a art that gains any benefit from the spell. I would also appreciate a little grammar control please, I take the time, please do the same.