8th Ed. (Redirect To) Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Since this got way too long for an individual post, I'm going to open it up in a separate thread where I will post each section as a separate post.

Find it here: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/caneghems-review-of-the-lizardmen.12415/

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

I really like the new Phirana blade options, a good -3 to armour save is never to be sniffed at and combine with the stegadon helm (which I love!), it's going to cause some headaches.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

am I right in thinking with the plaque of dominion as it lasts longer now if the enemy wizard fails his stupidity test he cant cast in his phase or dispel in ours

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

in this meta wizards seem to always be in range of generals and bsbs more often than not. Id say that item is close to worthless sadly.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Interesting read.
Hopefully you have time to do a write up on the special characters.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Thank you Caneghem! Great write-up. If I may ask please to cover the RAW for spears on saurus warrs when you get to our core please...are there still only extra attacks when getting charged? A lot of posters seems to indicate this is the optimal gearing for our saurus when next to an EOTG. I am a lazy git and do not want to rip arms of my current saurus nilly willy.

Also if a cannonball kills my eotg 1st round I want to know there is value in still having spear. While HW & shieldgivez parry sv all the time unless you get flanked.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

The spear rules are the same as it is for everyone else. You don't benefit from the extra rank from spears on the charge, but the when been charged or combat after the charge you get 3rd rank attacks (4th rank if horde)

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

quite sure the spear question is gonna come down to the FAQ about PF. Since atm you cant use it on supporting attacks. If the FAQ says we can. Then Spears might actually be worth it.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Thanks for the replies, call me old fashioned but I will stick to HW for now. No eotg dependance...

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

What makes you think you cannot apply the PF rule to supporting attacks? It states "whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit in close combat, it immediately makes another attack; roll to hit and wound as normal." Nothing in that rule says supporting attacks do not benefit from this rule.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

The BRB rule on supporting attacks. Only one, no matter your number of attacks or any special rules.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

I see and knew that rule but army book trumps brb.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Since the army book doesn't make an exception, or negate that rule specifically, then it is still in effect.

Hope ii is just an oversight, but I would say it is still in effect.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

You can also look at it like this:

This special rule is not granting an increase in the attacks profile of the model with the special rule unlike other rules like frenzy which adds an attack to the profile.

The supporting attacks are limited to one attack, which this is still the case in taking a saurus from 2 to 1 attack. If their 1 supporting attack his with a 6 it would then trigger another attack roll.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

Personally, I think you get them and will play it as such, but you'll probably need a FAQ to convince the more stubborn players out there.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

I've got the book here and it doesn't carve out an exception for supporting attacks. It just says, a model with this rule who rolls a 6 may immediately make another attack. Army book always trumps the BRB. In addition, common sense would tell you just how much of a mess things would become if you had to roll separate batches of supporting attacks separate from your regular attacks. The FAQ isn't needed, and if one appears, it will confirm that this rule is triggered by supporting attacks.

Look, I'm just as annoyed as anybody about having ONLY HW+SH saurus currently in my collection. But let's not allow that to warp our judgment! All hail the new and improved spear saurus.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

I agree that it is probably meant to affect supporting attacks. And I am not stubborn, ok maybe I am, but I really think that is how it will be played.

But the rules lawyer in me says that by RAW, it won't. Army book trumps BRB is sort of irrelevant as they aren't the same rule. That was mostly for things like our old enchanted shield that cost more than the BRB version.

And if you are making this rule, which is the more obvious choice if you only want it to allow the front rank to gain extra attacks:

A) Make the rule as written and say "You must follow the supporting attacks rule in the BRB"
B)Or just state the rule, and assume that BRB rules will be followed.

Now if you wanted all models to use the rule, then you should put in an exception to the BRB rule. This is an attack, albeit an extra one, but still breaks that BRB rule.

Like I said, I do think that everyone will get this rule. But I am not about to start pulling hand weapons off my models and replacing them with spears until I get a definitive answer. GW history is full of really wacky rulings, like the razordon ruling in the last edition.

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

This question over PF supporting and spear attacks has a clear answer. Your supporting attacks trigger PF bonus attacks. The PF special rule would state that supporting attacks cannot trigger bonus attacks if that were the case; however, it is not.

This reminds me of the DoC army book where there was the giant debate of whether the RoC table effects all enemy units or just demonic enemy units. In these cases, you just gotta use common sense. If PF only gave bonus attacks to the 6's to hit from the front rank, PF would be the worst special rule in the book. Like animosity bad. Not being able to restrain pursuit for only getting bonus attacks from the front rank would be garbage (only in horde form would you get enough attacks to make it useful).

Thankfully, PF applies to supporting and spear attacks. The supporting attacks are what make PF a good special rule with a small drawback. As if people didn't take hordes of 40 saurus spears often enough

 

Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen!

I think you're thinking of this incorrectly. The same logic you could use to argue that a supporting attack is only made once per game. The rule is triggering an extra batch of attacks, and since each time PF is triggered it can only generate one attack per model, supporting attacks' limit is inconsequential.

If the rule had stated "Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit in close combat, it immediately is able to attack again as normal", well then you'd have to separate the rolls. The front rank would make 2 attacks each while the supporting ranks would make 1 attack. As it stands though, the rule couldn't be more crystal clear.

"Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack; roll To Hit and To Wound as normal."

Special rules found in army books often grant permission to break the basic rules, and so I think this one is not an issue that even needs to be FAQ'd.