Alright well my friend and I enjoyed a battle of Dwarfs versus Lizardmen last night. it took about 3 or 4 hours and ended at 3 in the morning. This was my first game ever, so without further delay, Lizardmen VS Dwarfs, 2k. Here you see my army before deployment. I really need to buy some movement trays. Also a couple of notes about my army. The red Saurus in the Slann's unit represents Chakax, and my Stegadon isnt sitting on a base yet. My slann took this is after deployment. On the dwarfs side is a hill and on my side is hard cover. the board we're playing on was made here. we made it out of plywood, sand and paint really. if you're interested in learning on how to make it just ask me and i'll give you the full details. its not that hard. Dwarfs are moving forwards off the mountain, and on the right, all of my units are advancing forwards. In my magic phase nothing went off, either i didnt get it or he dispelled it. Here hes measuring out his cannon shot to see if he hit anything. With this shot he kills three saurus and wounds chakax The end of the turn. As i said, i lost two saurus, a temple guard and my chakax was wounded. None of my magic went off and we're not even close to close combat yet. I advanced all of my units forwards, with the realization that if i didnt get my units into close combat soon id never even reach him. On the dwarfs' part, most of his cannon shots were placed perfectly, but unfortunately they normally bounced away and exploded over nothing. So far nothing has really happened. I still haven't gotten off any spells and his cannons are hell on my units. This picture is from his side of the field. My skink priest on foot and my skink priest on the steggie have both been killed by this point due to his rune casting guy. I can't remember the name of the character, sorry. He the one behind the hill to the left of the picture. I am planning on attacking Thorek Ironbrow (I think thats the name of the runecaster) so my units on the far side of the table are going to charge his unit of dwarfs, then make their way around the side of the hill to Thorek. AAAAAAnd it didn't work. A nicely place cannon took out more than 25% of my unit and they fled. Unfortunately this left my skinks wide open for attack so bad job on my part. End of part one. more pics to come soon. Sorry about the dryness of this report. i dont remember much because it was late and my painkillers for my jaw were making me kinda loopy.
"My skink priest on foot and my skink priest on the steggie have both been killed by this point due to his rune casting guy." Ouch, Thorek Ironbrow? That is a seriously overpowered special character. One mistake that beginners usually make is with the anvil of doom's "wrath and ruin" effect. If you read the rules for it closely, it says that it CANNOT target characters unless they or their mount are a large target. So he can legally hit your stegadon and randomize the hits to possibly kill your priest on top (I hope he at least randomized hits!) However the skink priest on foot should not have been touched by the anvil effects as he is not a legal target. Now if the priest on foot is with a unit, the unit can be targetted, but not the priest individually. Sorry you had to go against Thorek in your first game... you really didn't have a chance in heck. Most tournaments explicitly ban Thorek outright. Next game start playing with the "no special characters" rule, it's really more balanced that way and it is easier to learn the game. Also you should post your army list, so that we can help you tweak it to better combat your dwarven foe.
Argh. I feel for you having to chickenrun across an open field with cannons and whatnot waiting for you at the end. Also, it's a real nice battlefield you got going there. Why don't you put up those details in painting and modeling for the rest of us? \o/
Thank you for the sympathies of me having to face thorek Ironbrow my first game. Honestly, i underestimated him and that was my downfall (along with the cannons and crappy roles) to Revered_Guardian, no my Slann hasn't done anything yet, and I'll tell you know, i only got off one spell in the entire game, and it didnt inflict any casualties :\. as for the gaming board, i'll put up a post on how to make one. it comes out real nice to play on.
Dwarven Battle Report. Part Two! Well things are looking up! im just about to charge on the left with my Saurus and back them up with my temple guard! and on the right, my saurus have rallied and are headed back into battle! Lets see what happens next! Awww tough luck. Thorek Ironbrow wiped out my saurus unit and most of my temple guard. they never even made it to close combat. oh well at least things are looking up on the right side of the board! Time to initiate, THE HAMMER AND ANVIL!!!!!!!!!! time to give Thorek's minions a taste of his own medicine. Well this doesnt resemble the hammer and anvil tactic at all! hmmm what went wrong i wonder? (i actually dont know what happened) well i threw my steggie at them, and this what came of the roll to wound in close combat (however i did inflict two casualties in the charge) This is my steggie in CC with his unit of something, and my skinks are suddenly worthless due to the fact that i cant shoot into combat. Oh but i didnt have to worry about my skinks for too long as a shot from the organ gun took em all out at once. (no further changes in CC or anything) well my slann is free of of his temple guard restraints, so im sending him around to go get rid of thorek Ironbrow. also my fearless saurus are almost back into the fight. my steggie lost all of his skink handlers and freaked out, so now he wont leave his masters' side(s). In the last magic phase (yes my friends this is turn six, how time does fly) nothing happens. the end of the turn comes, and the game is over. i am left with 890 points of army left, my friend with a good 1800. well we were both good sports about the game despite the crushing defeat (the manual said it was only a solid victory, but it felt like a crushing defeat to me). we shook hands and discussed what went wrong versus what went right. for me there was a lot to discuss on the first. and thats the end of that tragic tale, hoped you enjoyed, although i know all lizardmen generals cringe at a fellow lizardmen army's defeat (lol). *edit* somebody asked me for my army list for this battle so here it is, Slann Mage priest 275 Divine Plaque of protection, 3 DoAs, Itixi Grubs, 155 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2, EotG, Plaque of Tepok 340 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2, Itixi 60 Chakax 335 15 Saurus Warriors 165 Command, spears 45 15 saurus Warriors 165 Command, spears 45 10 Skink skirmishers 70 1 brave, Jav and Shields 16 10 Temple Guard 160 Command 35 this was this list i used that night. since then i have changed it a bit in my own ways, and i wanna see if you guys suggest the same things i did.
Ditch chacax so that you can get terradons and something else. Terradons are a must vs armies with war machines, if they cant kill the crew, they atleast make it impossible for them to shoot!
Imo, it would only be fair if you guys placed some more LOS blocking terrain midfield so that some even melee combat is actually viable.
For those who don't know exactly what Thorek does... He can use "Ancient Power" on the anvil runes with a roll of a 3+ instead of a 4+ as normal. He ALSO gets to reroll that 3+... So while ancient power is awesome and probably a reasonable risk at a 50% chance... Thorek's chance of success is 88.9%. Wrath and Ruin with ancient power effects D3 units per turn ANYWHERE on the table, each unit takes 2d6 str 4 magical hits. On top of this, every unit that is hit has its movement halved until the next time the anvil strikes or, for a flying unit, it cannot fly. It's an effect so powerful that it takes away from the fun of the game, since many of your units will likely never reach the other side of the table. Also you mentioned your units being wiped out by cannons... how exactly were you determining the damage? One empire player I knew was suffering from the impression that the D6 wounds were on the UNIT and not the MODEL. That's some impressive damage....
sorry but i dont quite understand what you mean here. he had two cannons (reg. cannon and organ gun) and a grudge thrower.
@Thebestlazyguy, he means that when a shot from a normal cannon hits any one MODEL on the table, that model takes D6 wounds. It is the same for every model in its path, cannonballs take no note of whether those models are in a regiment or if they are lone characters. Just so that you do not resolve those D6 wounds against an entire regiment that he hits.
Usually cannons don't do much damage to units... at best they can kill a few per turn. The Organ Gun certainly does rip most things to shreds, but I thought you meant strictly the normal type of cannon. What I was talking about: Dwarf cannons do d3 wounds for each hit. Some novices mistakenly calculate damage as follows... The cannon bounces through your unit that is 3 ranks deep and it hits 3 models. If all 3 hits wound, then 3 models die. Some people, however, will mistakenly multiply each wound by the d3 multiplier, potentially claiming up to 9 kills (or 18 in the case of an empire great cannon)! The d3 multiplier is for the purposes of multi-wound models only, not multi-wound units.
I'm sorry for you, that you had to face thorek for your first game. I had him in my 3rd or so. Seems like most people fight thorek once and never again. We lizards allready have a hard time versus shooting but dwarf shooting is worst. I can't give you much advice as I don't play against dwarfs at all. Nobody plays them anymore and I myself wouldn't play them as those games are boring. Which powers did you give your slann? Full lore, extra dice ? maybe ethereal ? There are a couple of thing I can advice you. Try to get your Temple guards up to 16 so you get 5x4wide full command and full ranked. Braves for skinks are wasted points even if its to fill up, better to get a musician or banner somewhere else. Also know that our special characters are over-costed and shouldn't be used other than in Legendary battles. (over 4k+ points) With those 300+ points you could get some terradons, a scar-veteran in your temple guards and salamanders.
Unfortunately, Dwarfs are the only race I can play, at least until i can get a car and drive myself to a GW. Or if his gf finishes her chaos army, although i feel like that wont be much fun either. Well for this game i took the Lore of Life, because i wanted to use the mountain spell and the rain spell (sorry, but i dont have a rulebook on me, and i cant remember the specific names) but neither spell got off often, and when it did, it would hit maybe twice and the armor save would prevent any wounds, except for the rain spell, that just never went off. and as for the temple guard idea, i would inflate their ranks, except that his plan is let me come to him, and in the mean-time he'll throw cannon shots my way. generally my temple guard is destroyed before i even get into combat. As for my slann, yes i take full lore, extra dice, and i tried Regeneration the last game i played and was very pleased. and once again, as for the, "drop chakax and take something worthwhile" idea, i completely agree, and have been reworking my Army list over the past couple of days. currently i have one force centered around three tough regiments of Saurus, over which a slann will shoot volleys of whatever lore i decide to take next, and i felt like taking Tetto'eko because he seems like fun. last game i played, the comet spell went off, and it lasted so long that, had i rolled a six, the blast would have covered the entire board. but true to the past roles of my die, i rolled a one, both times i was rolling for the radius. *edit* i was just realizing, i tend to write big blocks of text that seem... unappetizing to the eyes when viewed in a forum. yet everyone else seems to convey the same amount of information in less words. any ideas?
Post your army list in full detail for us when you're ready. I'd advise laying off all special characters. Personally I'd use metal, but life could be good too. Re-read what you've written before posting and edit as needed. Break each new point or subject into another paragraph.
well you asked so here are a couple of lists ive been working on. granted not all are done, and yes, they are supposed to be magically strong. Slann Mage-Priest 275 CHotOO, 3 DoA's 145 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2, Plaque of Tepok, Cloak of Feathers 75 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2, Itixi Grubs, Cloak of the Jaguar Warrior (i think, in my list i abbreviated CotJW) 75 Tetto'Eko 255 15 Saurus Warriors 165 Command, Spears 45 15 Saurus Warriors Command, Spears 45 15 Saurus Warriors Command, Spears 45 5 Cold One Calvary 175 3 Terradon Riders 90 2 Sallies 150 this comes out to 2000 pts My second list, this one also magically inclined, and basically the same as the last except a few changes Slann Mage-Priest 275 CHotOO, 3 DoA's 145 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2, Itixi Grubs, Cloak of Feathers 85 Saurus Scar-Vet 85 Halberd, sun Standard of Chotec, VotFF 54 Tetto'Eko 255 15 Saurus Warriors 165 Command, Spears 45 15 Saurus Warriors Command, Spears 45 15 Saurus Warriors Command, Spears 45 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Temple Guard 160 2 Sallies 150 1999 I realize both of these seem... strange... i cant quite figure out whats wrong with them however and this is the Army List I'm working on for when i play 3k games Lord Mazdamundi 620 Saurus Oldblood 145 Aura of Quetzl 40, Armour and shield 16, Carnosaur 210, spear 8 3 sallies 275 3 sallies 275 Skink Priest 65 Lvl 2 35, Plaque of Tepok 15 20 Saurus Warriors 220 Command, Spears 50 20 Skink Skirmishers 140 Brave, Javes and shields 26 20 Skink Skirmishers 140 Brave, Javes and shields 26 20 Skink Skirmishers 140 Brave, Javes and shields 26 3 Terradon Riders 90 Stegadon 235 so far i think this comes out at 2310, although i hope to be at 3k. any help on 3k armies would be appreciated, as well as tactics, as i hear they differ from 2k games. so thats 3 different lists, i hope you all can set me on the right path.
About your 2k lists. CoTJW= Charm of the Jaguar Warrior, just so you'ld know. Maybe Tetto'eko isn't so bad versus dwarfs if you want massive comets.. but it would make him a nice target. What I said before about 16TG was actually to use them in games versus other armies. You could try to run a Solo Slann versus dwarfs as their movement will never catch your slann, just watch out for miners... Then ethereal and the 2+ wardsave versus shooting should keep him alive. (some dwarf cannons have runes which make them magically) I don't know about the 15 saurus. Will they be enough to break his blocks in combat? As probably they will arrive with 9-10 guys after the 3-4 rounds of shooting. I would seriously advice an engine... Who knows, maybe with the priest on top who get an extra spell and an extra dice, you can get celestial shield off to protect your engine with a 4+ wardsave, while the engine protects your army with an 5+ wardsave. And Metal really is the lore to go versus dwarfs. Some spells can stop his warmachines and other are great for damage versus heavy armored troops (same with Chaos). About your 3K lists. I've played a few 3-4K games. It doesn't differ that much from 2K games as you still have to go full magic or combat anyways. A slann and oldblood don't seem to work. Either the opponent has enough defence on 3K to stop your one slann, which makes your oldblood much more of a target... I always choose to go full combat and take some magic defence in the form of skinks priest and an engine. Then I run 2 oldbloods on the flanks with some CoR. Giving him 3 prime targets, (Engine, 2 oldbloods). Maybe even an other Stegadon. To much to destroy for the 2 turns it takes to get in combat. As on 3K games the more magic dice you have the more chance you have on rolling a miscast and to either ruin your magic fase or either destroy your caster. Which either off those events are a pain. About those skirmishing skinks. 20 is too big a number, make them into 10-12max. And having 6 units of skirmishers is too much even for 3K. Easily shot down or magicked to death. Take 4 of them to screen your oldbloods and other units. As you got lots of points left, take some extra saurus, 2nd unit of terries, maybe even chameleons. And an Ancient Stegadon. With those I'm sure your points will get filled up to 3K in no time.
about the 15 saurus, i can see where your doubts would arise, but believe it or not, when my saurus actually get into battle i fare quite well against the dwarves, i've actually made a group flee before and i ran them down. so 15 saurus work great, its just getting them to close combat that is the trouble. Tyler (my step bro aka the dwarf guy) usually passes the movement phase and waits for me to come to him. if i ever even get that far lol.
He really managed to wound Chakax with a cannon? Chakax can reroll "look out sir" when there's a Slann in his unit.
hey, just talk to your friend and dont have battles with special toons for a bit. Just play with regular models. And i know what you mean when you say that the dwarf just sits there and waits for you.. -.- unfortunately they take tat strategy a lot.. Now when he deploys does he do it often in the corner or does he do it in the middle of the board?