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Death to the False Emperor! Chaos in 8th edition 40k.

Discussion in 'General Hobby/Tabletop Chat' started by Fhanados, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    So in the ongoing 40k 8th edition thread I’ve posted a bit on Chaos Space Marines. Thanks to some suspicious links of questionable legitimacy over on another forum that will remain nameless, I’ve managed to get a copy of the Chaos index. To say I’m excited right now is an understatement. So rather than clutter up the existing thread I thought I’d mind-spew into a new one! In this thread I’ll be sharing my thoughts and analysis on the Heretic Astartes, our new fancy name for Chaos Marines, some thoughts on Daemons and our good stompy friend the Renegade Knight.

    So first up, what’s changed? Lots, and not much. Obviously there are a lot of core rule changes in general that affect Chaos Marines but the big changes specific to us was the “removal” of Legions and Marks of Chaos. Legions and Marks are now Keywords, and in themselves don’t grant any benefits but it does open up some options for synergy later on.

    I’m going to take a moment now to talk about the changes to Legions and Marks. Let’s start with Legions, since that seems to have caused the most controversy. So what were “Legions” in 7th edition? Well until the Traitor Legions supplement, nothing. Traitor Legions introduced 2 “layers” of rules for each of the 9 Traitor Legions: a suite of special rules that were gained from being declared a certain Legion, and each Legion had its own detachment that provided MORE special rules unique to that legion. Each individual Legion also had their own Warlord Traits and Relics. Wow that’s a lot of stuff! And it all had horrendous internal balance which ultimately cumulated with Death Guard being hands down the best.

    Marks in 7th were an upgrade where you paid points to dedicate your units to a certain god and got a bonus for it. This is all well and good in a competitive sense – you took the mark that most benefited the unit’s role (so… Nurgle on everything?) but they were unbalanced as well. Tzeentch was almost always useless, Slaanesh and Khorne situational (and both combat oriented) and Nurgle always useful. So another win for Death Guard!

    So what are the Legions and Marks now? A Keyword. Nothing more. No special rules, no special detachments, no formations, relics or warlord traits. Some units will already have a pre-set Legion, for example Abaddon the Despoiler has the BLACK LEGION keyword. Other units will have <LEGION>, which means you can pick what Legion to put there. You’re not limited to the original 9 Traitor Legions either, you can use any known Legion or Warband name or just make up your own! No longer are you punished for using Crimson Slaughter instead of Black Legion, or Eightscarred instead of World Eaters. The <MARK> Keyword is the same except you can either choose to have no mark at all and lose the keyword, or choose one of the 4 gods (no, you cannot take the mark of Malal. Damn hipsters!). Your mark will determine which Icon you can purchase and some abilities will only affect models with a certain god’s keyword. It’s basically EXACTLY the same as the Slaves to Darkness units in AoS that can choose which god to be dedicated to.

    Veterans of the Long War is also gone, replaced with Death to the False Emperor which grants an extra attack against Imperium units if you roll a 6+ to hit in combat. I can’t help but feel like this is WAY worse than And They Shall Know No Fear, but I expected that and it really just encourages me to hit those smug Loyalists in the face with a chainsaw even harder anyway.

    Icons are a bit different. The Khorne and Nurgle ones fill much the same roles as before. The Tzeentch one is a 1/6 chance to cast a mini-smite each Psychic phase, and the Slaanesh one makes Death to the False Emperor trigger on a 5+ instead of 6+. Icon of Vengeance is +1Ld but interestingly is now only available to units with no mark at all. I guess Chaos Undivided needed something special too. My absolute favourite thing about icons is that they’re cheap, and they all cost the same! It’s one of those small things that sets Chaos apart from their loyalist counterparts and I really like that I’m not hamstringing myself by taking one.

    I’ll be looking at HQ units in my next post, but before I do just a little disclaimer on points costs: I’m not going into them. I’ll be looking at units by virtue of their stats, rules and options. I might to comparisons to similar units, but whether or not something is “worth their points” is something I’m TERRIBLE at judging.
     
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  2. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES HQs – SPECIAL CHARACTERS

    ABADDON THE DESPOILER
    Let’s start with the biggest and the best: Abaddon the Despoiler. He has a significantly higher Power than any other infantry character in the book, and points-wise he seems more on-par with a Daemon Prince than other Terminator Armoured characters, but damn he looks impressive on paper!

    He allows BLACK LEGION units within 6” to reroll all failed Hits and all HERETIC ASTARTES within 12” automatically pass morale. He also has Teleport Strike so you can reliably get him to where he needs to go, and at T5 with 7 wounds and a 2+/4++ he’s got a good chance to weather the storm before he dishes out some damage, and boy he can do some damage! His twin bolter has AP-1 and D3 Damage and he has 2 melee weapons. The Talon of Horus is a power fist without the -1 to Hit penalty, and Drach’Nyen give +D6 attacks but inflicts a mortal wound and can’t be used on a 1.

    Now I could be wrong, but I’m under the impression that in 8th you get to choose how many attacks to make with each weapon in combat. This makes Abaddon REALLY deadly. How? Ok so he has 6 attacks base. Make 5 with the Talon of Horus, and use 1 attack to trigger Drach’Nyen’s D6 ability. If you roll a 1 you still get to make 5 attacks with the Talon, so no big deal. Anything more than a 1 and you’re getting extra attacks! All hitting on 2+, with extra attacks against Imperium generated on a 6+. Brutal.

    Obviously Abaddon works best with Black Legion for his to-hit reroll bubble, but his auto-pass Morale ability affects all HERETIC ASTARTES, so he’s a solid addition to any Chaos army in my eyes.

    HURON BLACKHEART
    If Abaddon’s points cost scares you, Huron Blackheart may be more to your liking. Huron has what I call the “Standard Lord Profile” and is very comparable to generic Chaos Lords in stats and Power/points. While Abaddon is a cut above normal Lords, Huron is the same but different. Like Abaddon, Huron has 2 melee weapons – a Power Axe and the Tyrant’s Claw (a power fist with a fancy name). The Claw is also a ranged weapon with the same profile as a Heavy Flamer, which is nice for softening up targets before charging or dropping a few wounds off a unit in Overwatch.

    Any models with the RED CORSAIRS keyword within 6” automatically pass Morale. Not quite as good as Abaddon but without Teleport Strike chances are you’ll be running Huron around with some friends or a Cultist meatshield at the very least.

    What really sets Huron apart from being a “mini Abaddon” is that he’s a Psyker. He can only cast/deny one power (which I’ll go into more detail when we come to Sorcerers), but as long as his little pet Hamadrya is still alive he automatically casts a second power if the first is successful. Cool thing is, the buff powers are not Legion exclusive so he can cast Warptime or Prescience on non-Red Corsairs units. This makes Huron another character that’s pretty easy to incorporate into a mixed-legion list. And if you find that the Psychic powers aren’t being useful? You can use the Hamadrya as an ablative wound and soak up that stray lascannon shot!

    CYPHER
    Cypher
    is another character based off the Lord profile. He’s slightly faster (M7” instead of M6”), and lacks a lot of the keywords that allows him to synergise well with other units. He doesn’t have <LEGION> so he can’t embark on transports or benefit from many buffs. He doesn’t have HERETIC ASTARTES so he can’t benefit from Sorcerer’s powers, and he doesn’t have <MARK> so he can’t benefit from anything god-specific. So what does he have? IMPERIUM. CHAOS. FALLEN. So he can still be taken in Imperial OR Chaos armies, but for now screw loyalists we’re looking at his darker doings!

    He has no close combat weapons, but he does have a bolt pistol that shoots 3 times with AP-1, and a plasma pistol that shoots 2 times at S8 with no “gets hot” risk. Now that you can fire Pistols while in combat, this makes him pretty dangerous up close. Once he’s fired off his pistols he can still fight with 4 S4 attacks. It’s not much, but combined with the 2 plasma shots and 3 bolter shots you’ve just made 9 attacks in one turn. He can also fire if he Advances or Falls Back, which means he is INCREDIBLY mobile.

    Cypher also has a 4+ invulnerable save, like most Lords, but has the fun little addition that if he’s killed you roll a D6 and on a 2+ he doesn’t count as slain for purposes of victory conditions.

    As icing on the cake any FALLEN units within 6” can reroll to-hit rolls of 1. Shooting and combat.

    So what do we do with this odd character? He’s fairly cheap, so I feel like he’s best used alongside plasma toting Fallen, or to suicidally throw him into mobs of light-medium infantry. By having him as your warlord you also deny your opponent victory points. Other than that he doesn’t bring a lot to the table for your army (besides being really cool in general) so if you’re looking for the most bang for your buck he probably won’t be your guy.

    FABIUS BILE
    This dude went from “why would I ever pay points for this?” to a pretty good choice. Like Cypher he has no <LEGION> which has the odd side effect of not being able to embark in transports, but he does have HERETIC ASTARTES. He has a fairly normal Lord profile but with BS3+ instead of the normal 2+ and S5 instead of S4. He has some odd equipment – a 3 shot pistol that wounds on 2+ and a melee weapon with -1AP and D3 damage. Both weapons are less effective against vehicles, so avoid pitting him against Dreadnoughts! He lacks an invulnerable save, but automatically heals D3 wounds each turn.

    The cool part is his Enhanced Warriors rule, which is one of the most fun things in this book! He can “Enhance” one unit of HERETIC ASTARTES INFANTRY (but not Characters) that is within 1” of him each turn. You roll a D6 for each model in the unit, and for each 6 the unit suffers a Mortal Wound. After that’s done, you roll a D3 and the unit gains +1 to either Strength, Toughness or Attacks. This used to be limited to units of Chaos Space Marines, but now you can pick anything with the appropriate keywords. Even enemies! If you’re feeling lucky you can try enhancing an enemy Heretic Astartes unit he’s in combat with (he can Enhance at the end of ANY movement phase) and hope for enough mortal wounds to offset the buff.

    I think he’s much like Cypher – a little tricky to work in but does present some unique things that you can’t get from a Lord or other Lord equivalents. I think I’ll have to paint my one up and give him a go!

    KHARN THE BETRAYER
    The first of our god-specific characters and another Lord level HQ. Kharn is Khorne’s chosen and he does what you’d expect him to. He hits things with an axe and he’s damned good at it! 6 S6 AP-4 attacks, always hitting at on 2+ thanks to his axe, with D3 damage. He also gets to attack twice. That’s right, he can pile in and attack again with his brutal 6 attacks. Any downsides? Well he can't reroll his to-hit rolls and any misses instead hits any friendly units within 1”. He also has an ability that allows WORLD EATERS units within 1” to re-roll failed hit rolls, which I suppose gives you SOME incentive to risk getting your own guys’ heads cut off by him.

    This is not a complex dude to work out. Get him in combat and chop things. He has the WORLD EATERS legion, which goes well with Khorne Berzerkers so you may as well toss him in a Rhino with a few choppy friends, or have a disposable cultist screen running around with him absorbing gunfire and stray axe swings. He is a little more expensive than a similarly equipped Lord, but the double-attack makes him well worth his points.

    AHRIMAN
    Ahriman
    has a Lord-like statline, but fills the same role as a Sorcerer or Exalted Sorcerer. His staff has him hitting at S6 with AP-1 and 3 damage in melee, but you want to pick your fights carefully because he’ll have a tough time taking on hordes or 2+ saves. He allows THOUSAND SONS legion units to re-roll failed Invulnerable saves of 1, which is decent but not earth shattering. He can cast 3 powers and gains +1 to cast/dispel rolls and rather uniquely for Special Characters has the option to ride a Disc of Tzeentch which gives him DAEMON, CAVALRY and FLY, bumps his movement up to 12” and grants a fairly insignificant extra attack in melee.

    The big question is, is he worth taking? Yes. Next to Magnus he’s the best Psyker we have, he’s got a better invulnerable save than an Exalted Sorcerer and being Damage 3 instead of D3 on the staff makes him better in combat too. He’s no longer super-expensive and can function in concert with other THOUSAND SONS units (say, Rubric marines in a Rhino) or alone (on a disc) so it’s really not hard to slot him in to any LEGION. Having the DAEMON and TZEENTCH rules granted by the Disc also opens up some cool opportunities when you start looking at Chaos Daemons.

    TYPHUS
    This is one tough dude and the only other Special Character we have in Terminator Armour. He’s super durable, with T5 2+/4++ and 6 wounds. He also has Disgustingly Resilient that allows him to ignore wounds on a roll of 5+. His melee weapon is very impressive, hitting at S7 AP-3 with 3 damage re-rolling wound rolls of 1, and his Destroyer Hive is now a Pistol that shoots 2D6 times at S4 AP-3 so he can really chew through power armoured infantry and big scary things alike.

    So we know he’s tough and he’s good at killing things. What else does he do? Lots! Any DEATH GUARD within 7” can inflict moral wounds to models within 1” of them at the start of each turn. In addition to this, any Poxwalkers (which are DEATH GUARD by default) within 7” gain +1S and +1T. AND he’s a Psyker that can cast 2 powers.

    This guy is awesome! So what’s stopping me from using him all the time? 2 things: Firstly he’s slow. M4” and rolls 2D6 picking the LOWEST when advancing. He has Teleport Strike so he can plop down 9” away from the enemy but you’re still going to take a while to get to where you need to be. Secondly two of his special rules work only on Death Guard, and he can take powers from Contagion which benefits Death Guard even more. Typhus is good, but he’s REALLY good in Death Guard.

    LUCIUS THE ETERNAL
    Lucky Last Lucius. Another Lord and a fairly cheap one too. He’s not overly impressive but is still good for his points. He has 2 ranged weapons, a doom siren (D3 S5 AP-2 auto hits that ignore cover) and the Lash of Torment. The Lash is pretty unimpressive but can be fired when within 1” of an enemy, and can be fired at enemies within 1” of friendly models – essentially meaning he can shoot it into and out of combat. He has a Power Sword that does 2 damage as well which is pretty nice. His armour grants a 5+ invulnerable save and whenever he makes a saving throw (armour or invuln) in melee he has a chance of inflicting mortal wounds on his attackers. He also gains extra attacks when fighting Characters and has a 6” aura of re-roll 1s for Emperor’s Children.

    My verdict? I’d say unless you’re exclusively using Emperor’s Children or you just like the model, not really worth it. A standard Lord has the same re-roll aura and has far more weapons options and mobility, while Sorcerers and Dark Apostles will bring more support abilities. If you’re using a mixed-chaos force and are looking for combat then there are much more appealing options (Kharn for example…).


    Final Thoughts on Special Characters
    Overall I think the unique characters all became a lot more viable. Most of them saw a dramatic drop in points (except Kharn, who went up a smidge) and bring something to the table that you don’t get with the generic equivalents. I was hoping for a bit more in the way of benefits for having the Legends of the Legions granting benefits to their Legion/Warband but there’s enough there to work with. I really look forwards to using Cypher again and really want to give Abaddon and Fabius a run.
     
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  3. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    Is "index" the new word for "codex"?

    False Emperor? ...are there multiple contenders for Emperor in 40K? (Shows what I know, I thought there was only the one...)
     
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  4. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    The Index books are essentially the equivalent of the Grand Alliance books in Age of Sigmar. They contain the rules for multiple armies rounded up into categories. Imperium is divided into 2 books (Imperium 1 being Space Marines of all flavours and Imperium 2 being all other Imperial factions), Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons and Renegade Knights (now named Questor Traitoris) are in the Chaos index, then theres 2 books for Xenos (Book 1 being Eldar and Necron, book 2 being Ork, Tau and Tyranids).

    "Death to the False Emperor" is a common warcry used by Chaos Marines. To keep it simple, the Chaos legions know that the Emperor isn't a God (or at least wasn't one 10,000 years ago) and that the Chaos Gods are the "truth". Originally Horus was going to usurp the throne, but he came down with a bad case of having his soul obliterated. Nowadays there's no real plan to claim the throne or rule the Imperium, they just want to destroy it!
     
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  5. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES HQ – LORDS AND SORCERERS
    Heretic Astartes have a LOT of HQ choices. Like with AoS, what used to be a single unit entry with lots of options got split into multiple units. Chaos Lords became Chaos Lord, Chaos Lord on Bike, Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, Chaos Lord on Juggernaut and so on. Sorcerers got the same treatment. Unlike AoS they’re all pretty much identical save for a few stat bumps, movement and a few minor rules tweaks so for the sake of simplicity I’m going to discuss all the Chaos Lords at once and all the Sorcerers at once, then discuss their shared options and mounts afterwards.

    CHAOS LORD
    We now have 7 different entries for these dudes, and they’re all basically the same. They have a fairly impressive stat line with WS2+ BS2+ W5 and 4A but their real strength comes in how versatile they are. All Lords have the Sigil of Corruption rule, which grants a 4+ invulnerable save. They also have the Lord of Chaos rule, which allows you to reroll to-hit rolls of 1 for LEGION units within 6”, so it’s always good to hang around with other units but if you want to go out solo and put the hurt on things you definitely have the tools for it. Having a Daemonic Steed of some kind restricts your Lord of Chaos rule to only affect Legion units with the same Mark, so generally they work a bit better in a mono-god list or one where they have a dedicated unit to support.

    Lords have access to a LOT of weapons. With the decrease in points cost across the board for power weapons of all kinds and plasma pistols being actually GOOD you can quite easily make a Chaos Lord very killy. There are a lot of options to increase mobility, and you can tailor your Lord to best suit your army’s composition. Use a lot of Raptors? Give him a Jump Pack! Need to guarantee some melta shots with your bikers? Give him a bike! Want him to babysit your backfield Havoc units for the re-rolls? Umm ok you can do that if you want… just keep him cheap. You can pick your <LEGION> and <MARK> keywords so you can really fit him in to any army (well… except Thousand Sons. But we’ll get to that later.).

    One option that’s unique to the Lord that the Sorcerer doesn’t gain access to is the Juggernaut of Khorne. The Lord on Juggernaut is a little faster than normal, gains extra +1S, +1T, +1W and gets to make 3 extra attacks using the mount’s Bladed Horn which is a fairly good weapon that gets stronger if you charge. The Jugger is undoubtedly incredibly good, but the points cost is fairly high so I think it’s pretty fair. You also gain the DAEMON keyword and must take the mark of KHORNE, which gives some nice synergy with Khorne Daemons.

    SORCERER
    As with the Lord, we have lots of Sorcerers. They have slightly lower stats than a Lord, what I call the “Support HQ” statline, but are no means pushovers. While they CAN take all the same weapons options as a Lord they must have a Force Weapon which in most cases is better anyway so you can keep them fairly cheap. They don’t have any auras or innate rules apart from the standard Death to the False Emperor rule, but they are Psykers that know 2 spells from the Heretic Astartes discipline and Smite and can cast/dispel twice per turn.

    Now I’ve got to say that next to the Psychic powerhouse that was 7th edition Sorcerers these guys seem a bit underwhelming at first. The Heretic Astartes discipline only has 3 spells – Infernal Gaze, Warptime and Prescience. Infernal Gaze is a token magic missile deal and is roughly on par with Smite in terms of damage output. Warptime on the other hand is amazing! If manifested you pick one Heretic Astartes unit within 3” and it can instantly move. Now you can REALLY shove those combat units in people’s faces! Prescience is cool too and grants the target Heretic Astartes unit +1 to Hit. Given that the “Rule of 1” applies to Psykers in Matched Play, I doubt you’ll see these guys spammed but they’re useful enough to see a lot of play. They don’t have the Sigil of Corruption, so they’re not as aggressive as a Lord but I think they’re perfect in their role as a support HQ, and not being stuck to buffing based on LEGION keyword means they’re pretty much always useful (except when using Cypher or Fallen).

    LORD AND SORCERER OPTIONS
    So, so, so many options. Where to start? Jump Packs! Unlike other options they’re not a separate unit entry, but an option for the “vanilla” unit. You gain +6” movement, FLY and Jump Pack Assault (one of the many new “deepstrike” rules). Very useful, but it is comparable in points to some of the daemonic mounts so you might want to weigh your options. If you’re using Raptors or Warp Talons I think this is a very valuable tool, especially combined with a Sorcerer’s Warp Time spell.

    Next we have Terminator Armour. You get a better save, an extra wound and attack, Teleport Strike (deep strike) and in the case of the Sorcerer you get an Invulnerable save. The weapons options are a little different and you’ll end up a fair amount more points than if on foot or with a Jump Pack, but backing up a unit of Terminators with a Lord or Sorcerer (or both!) is a pretty good plan of attack and with the Teleport Strike you can really cause some headaches to an opponent who leaves an opening.

    Now to start on mounts we have the good old fashioned Bike. You more than double your movement, gain a point of Toughness and an extra wound, and add 6” to your move when advancing instead of rolling a D6. Oh and you get the Combi-Bolter, which isn’t bad. It is a bit more expensive than a Jump Pack but the added durability and speed is worthwhile if you don’t mind giving up Jump Pack Assault.

    Next up is the Disc of Tzeentch. Same movement as a Jump Pack, and you gain DAEMON, CAVALRY and FLY. On a Sorcerer it grants a 5+ invulnerable save, so you end up paying a few more points for it than a Lord does. You also gain an extra attack with the Disc’s blades, but it’s only a single S4 melee attack and nothing to get excited about. Not bad if you have the model already, but I’d probably prefer a bike or jump pack.

    The Palanquin of Nurgle is the odd one out. You get a substantial boost in durability (+1T, +2W) and D6 extra S2 attacks in melee, but you also LOSE 1” of movement and become CAVALRY so you can’t embark in transports. The only way I see this being useful is in a mixed Chaos army with Epidemius to benefit from his buffs to NURGLE DAEMON units, but without any way to really get to where you need to I don’t think we’ll see this option used often.

    Steed of Slaanesh is another matter. Points-wise it’s literally 1pt more than a Jump Pack and for that you gain DAEMON, CAVALRY and SLAANESH as usual, and 2 extra S4 attacks from the mount. Your movement value increases to 12" and you gain the ability to advance and charge in the same turn! This is better used on a choppy Lord you want to get into combat than a Sorcerer who just needs to get around to support other units. Because of its speed it will likely mean that your Lord is off on his own stabbing things, so it’s just as useful for a mixed army as it is for mono-Slaanesh.

    LORD AND SORCERER WEAPONS
    Unlike most other Chaos HQ choices, Lords and Sorcerers can choose their weapons. So how do I know which is best for me?
    Power & Force Weapons: Some smarter people than I have done the math and the difference between power Sword, Axe and Mace is pretty insubstantial. I think the axe edges out slightly on top, but not by a lot. They're all pretty similar in points cost and won't break the bank so any is a good choice to have and I wouldn't equip a Lord with anything less. Force weapons are just power weapons with D3 Damage so the same applies, although there is a slightly bigger points gap between options it's not enough to hurt you while you're list building but it can mean that Sorcerers end up similar or MORE points than a Lord if you're not paying attention.
    Power Fist: -1 To Hit in exchange for double strength, good AP and D3 damage is still very potent on a Lord (who will still hit on a respectable 3+). I wouldn't bother on a Sorcerer - he has to pay for his Force weapon anyway so you'll end up paying for multiple melee weapons on a squishy support character and it will hit on 4+, which is fine on throwaway unit champs but pretty bad if it means flunking your rolls results in an expensive support HQ dying.
    Lightning Claw: AP-2 rerolling failed wounds, not too scabby at cutting through MEQ. The old "FistyClaws" build is gone, claws only get +1A if you use them in a pair. Unlike previous editions, a pair of claws is pretty affordable so I think double claws is pretty viable if you're hunting infantry or characters.
    Chainaxe: Power axe without the good AP? Leave it at home for the Berzerkers of cheap unit champs.
    Chainfist: One of my all time favourite weapons, only available to Terminator armoured models. Same as a Power Fist but with better AP and a flat 2 Damage instead of D3. Only 2pt more than a Power Fist so if you were going to take a Power Fist on your Terminator, just take a Chainfist instead.
    Combi-Weapons: Combi weapons of all flavours are MUCH better than they used to be, and got a points increase to boot. I really like this, since it plays to my idea of Lords being the most well-equipped individuals in the army and lets you make the most of their good WS and BS. Competitively I think we'll see a lot of these. Me personally? Probably not - I can't be bothered converting them!
    Plasma Pistol: Cheaper than before, can shoot while in combat, no risk of killing yourself with normal shots? Yep these are good, I highly recommend them. In a pinch you can risk Overcharging but the chance of outright slaying your expensive HQ for a single S8 shot is totally not worth it.
     
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  6. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES HQ – THE REST OF THEM!
    My last post was a fairly big ramble on Lords and Sorcerers. The rest are (mostly) support HQs with very limited options, so there’s not as much to go through per-unit. So let’s take a look at what other HQ options we have at our disposal and how I’d use them.

    DARK APOSTLE
    I… don’t like it. I love Chaplains, and this dude is pretty much a Chaos Chaplain so I WANT to like it but I don’t. He has a nice WS2+ but only 3 attacks. Power Mauls are now more appealing than they used to be, but he still lacks any kind of meaningful weapons options. His Dark Zealotry and Demagogue rules are nice buffs to nearby units of the same Legion as him, but I think the 6” range is far too short. I guess he’s still useful backed up by Cultists or supporting something that’s good in melee, but overall I just find his lack of options when compared to Chaplains thoroughly disappointing, and aside from said lack of options there is NOTHING differentiating him from Chaplains. Same stats, same rules (albeit differently named) same POINTS! I really, really love the portrayal of these guys in background, but they still do not live up to it on the table.

    DAEMON PRINCE
    Finally this guy is good again! Pretty much every stat is better than in 7th and he is not horrendously overcosted. He provides excellent synergy between Daemon and Heretic Astartes units – granting rerolls to nearby LEGION and DAEMON units that share the same mark keyword. Any non-Khorne Prince is automatically a Psyker with 1 power from Heretic Astartes, and Khorne Princes gain +1 attack in lieu of being a Psyker. There are a few oddities though. Firstly, the Heretic Astartes daemon prince has 2 less wounds than the Chaos Daemons daemon prince despite costing the same points and having the same options. Secondly, the Chaos Daemons version has access to god-specific Psychic powers that the Heretic Astartes one doesn’t (although this I don’t have too much of an issue with). Lastly, and most bafflingly is that the points costs of the weapons make no goddamned sense at all! A pair of Maelific Talons is noticibly better than the Axe or Sword options, but costs a 10pt compared to 45 or 42 for the others. How did they get this so wrong?! I 100% expect to see more of these guys flying around but whether people will use the Chaos Daemons version for the extra wounds and powers or the Heretic Astartes version for the Legion buff remains to be seen.

    WARPSMITH
    Our Techmarine… but worse. Standard Support HQ stats but with BS2+ and a 2+ save. He has a lot of weapons: bolt pistol, flamer, melta gun, power axe and grenades. He also has the “Master of Mechanisms” rule which allows him to either heal D3 wounds to a friendly LEIGON unit within 1”, or inflict a Mortal Wound on an enemy vehicle within 18”. Not super powerful, but pretty handy. He can also replace his bolt pistol for a plasma pistol or combi-weapon to maximise on that sweet BS. But hang on, didn’t I say he was worse than a Techmarine? Why yes I did! Why? Simple answer – options. Techmarines have access to bikes, servitors, terminator armour and the like, while Warpsmiths don’t. A sad trend. Does this mean Warpsmiths are bad? Not at all! They’re cheaper than Sorcerers in points and can put out a lot of damage but they do occupy a strange niche of being good at supporting backfield vehicles but need to get close to make the most of their weapons without the means of actually getting there without a transport.

    EXALTED SORCERERS
    These guys are basically Chaos Lords blended with Sorcerers - Lord stats with Force Weapons and Psychic Powers. Awesome! Why would I ever take anything else? Firstly, they’re only available to the Thousand Sons Legion which means you’re either using a mixed list and not getting the most out of them, or pure Thousand Sons (which has restrictions I’ll discuss later). Second is our now familiar lack of options. In fact their only option is to take a Disc of Tzeentch. They can’t even choose which Force Weapon they want and are stuck with Staves! So what do they do? They have a 5+ invulnerable save and allow nearby Thousand Sons Infantry to reroll invulnerable save throws of 1. That second ability is really handy when running a “pure” army. As nifty as they are I'd use Ahriman instead if I had the extra points. If you need to shave a few off these guys do cost a fair bit less so they're still viable.

    LORD OF CONTAGION
    The first of a few Death Guard Only characters. He’s much the same as Typhus. In fact, he’s exactly the same except for the fact he’s not a Psyker and has a different weapon – the Plaguereaper. This guy hits like a truck (if he ever gets into combat. See Typhus.), with 4 S7 AP-3 attacks with 3 Damage hitting on 2+ and re-rolling wound rolls of 1. You can quite reliably put 9 or so wounds on something big, or just clean house on a unit of Terminators or Custodes. Like Typhus he has Disgustingly Resilient, Cataphractii Armour and Nurgle’s Gift. He is significantly more expensive than a similarly equipped Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour and not far off Typhus, so as cool as he is I don’t see him being used often.

    MALIGNANT PLAGUECASTER
    Another Death Guard HQ, this time a Sorcerer equivalent. With extra T and Disgustingly Resilient the Plaguecaster is a bit tougher than the Sorcerer, but as with the Lord of Contagion and Exalted Sorcerer really has no options. He does have access to the Contagion discipline, which currently only Typhus and Plaguecasters can utilise. Miasma of Pestilence grants a -1 to hit for attacks targeted at a friendly Death Guard unit within 18”, Gift of Contagion causes an enemy unit to suffer -1A, -1S or -1T for a turn, and Plague Wind is a Mortal Wound magic missile that’s pretty good against hordes. He also has Pestilential Fallout, which causes a mortal wound to the nearest enemy unit within 7” if he casts on a 7 or more. I quite like this guy (hate the model) and he’s very comparable to a Sorcerer in terms of points, but that dreaded lack of options hurts. Very viable in a Death Guard army, and still quite useful in a mixed-Chaos force I think.

    And that’s if for HQ choices! Next up I’ll go over our Heretic Astartes troops choices (there aren’t that many!) and maybe Fast Attack. We’ll see.

    *EDIT: Realised the Noxious Blightbringer is actually an Elites choice and not HQ. I'll move him over to the appropriate post once I get to Elites.
    EDIT 2: Moved Noxious Blightbringer to Elites.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
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  7. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES – TROOPS
    So now we come to the bread and butter – Troops. From the unwashed masses to the elite of the Four Gods, we have a decent variety of Troops units to choose from depending on the Legion we choose. A few choices will only be available to particular legions, but every legion (except Death Guard and Thousand Sons) has access to the two fundamental Chaos units, Chaos Cultists and Chaos Space Marines.

    CHAOS CULTISTS
    Summed up in 2 words: Disposable Bodies. Cultists don’t have any meaningful weapons options and their Champions lack access to the usual Wargear lists so anything these guys do will be achieved through weight in numbers. There’s a lot of complaining online about the fact they cost more per-model than Imperial Guard Infantry and are an objectively worse unit, but in context of the Chaos army overall they’re still a good choice when you need mass bodies. They’re also cheaper than Poxwalkers and Tzaangor that fulfil the same role. In themselves they probably won’t achieve much that can’t be done better with Daemon troops like Bloodletters or Plaguebearers but I feel we will still see lots of them on the virtue of their cheap cost.

    POXWALKERS
    Following on from Cultists we have Poxwalkers. Slower than cultists, worse WS, no ranged weapons, worse save, more expensive and Deathguard Only. What’s so good about Poxwalkers? Well they have the good old Disgustingly Resilient and are immune to Morale, so they’re pretty resilient for a trash unit. They also can INCREASE their unit size by killing enemy units and gain +1 to hit in big units. Are they worth it? I don’t know, I’m not feeling it. You could do better with plain Cultists or Plaguebearers. Still, a nice thematic unit and it comes in the starter box so I think we’ll see plenty in game.

    TZAANGOR
    Thousand Sons only trashy horde unit. They have stats (and points cost) more comparable to Daemons troops than Cultists, and have the 5+ invulnerable save to boot. They come with Tzaangor Blades as standard which grants +1A and -1 AP and can be replaced with an Autopistol and Chainsword. They also re-roll failed hits in combat against Characters and can take an Instrument of Chaos to increase their advance and charge rolls by 1. And they can take an Icon of Flame! I’m in love with these guys, and even though they work best with other Thousand Sons units in support (Exalted Sorcerer) they are still a nice Troops choice to run in mixed Chaos armies.

    CHAOS SPACE MARINES
    Ah yes, what should be the bread and butter of a Chaos army. These guys have spent many years on the shelf on account of being “Tactical Marines but worse” in an era where Tactical Marines were considered bad. Now I think they’ll make a comeback. Are they better? Kind of but not really? It’s hard to explain, but with the drastic price increase on vehicles and viability of mixed weapons units I think we’ll see a few more of these guys. The unit themselves are basic Space Marine (MEQ) stats, between 5-20 models per unit. In units of 10 or more, 2 models can take either a Special Weapon (Melta, Flamer, Plasma Gun) or Heavy Weapon (Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon) and Champion can take 2 items of Wargear from the same weapons options discussed in the post on Lords and Sorcerers.

    So what’s changed? Why take them? For starters they’re actually fairly cheap in points. Secondly, they’re fairly flexible. You can equip them for range (Bolter and Bolt Pistol) or combat (Bolt Pistol and Chainsword) for no difference in cost. The biggest change in their flexibility is that you can take 2 heavy weapons in a 10 man unit, whereas before it was restricted to either 1 heavy 1 special, or 2 specials. This makes the unit a lot more flexible in terms of options, which added to the fact we can move and shoot heavy weapons and the “everyone can split fire” thing makes Chaos Marines a good utility option. They’re also not terrible at assault, particularly against Imperial units. Finally, they can take any mark and be part of any Legion except Death Guard or Thousand Sons. It’s a near-universally available unit with flexible options for combat or shooting that can be tailored to engage almost any enemy unit. I’ll be at least giving them a go (I have about 70 of the damn things!), and hopefully making them a core component of my 8th edition army.

    KHORNE BERZERKERS
    These are only Troops to WORLD EATERS Legion and are otherwise Elites, but it’s so easy to keep them in the Troops slot at the moment I’ll just include them here. These guys are Chaos Space Marines without the guns. They have Chainswords and Bolt Pistols, and anyone can take a Chainaxe. 2 per unit can take Plasma Pistols, the Champion has the standard options from the Wargear lists and one model can take an Icon of Wrath. So what’s the big deal? Blood for the Blood God! No I’m not threatening you, these guys can pile in and attack TWICE each Fight phase just like Kharn. They are a bit more expensive than vanilla Chaos Space Marines but a few of these guys in a Rhino accompanied by a Lord or other HQ would be a scary prospect indeed.

    PLAGUE MARINES
    Troops only to Death Guard, these guys are essentially Chaos Space Marines with an extra point of Toughness, 1” less movement and Disgustingly Resilient. Rather than a Bolt Pistol they all have Plague Knives, which re-rolls wound rolls of 1. They get 2 Special Weapons regardless of unit size, with the addition of the Deathguard-only Blight Launcher which is similar in damage output to a Reaper Autocannon only it’s Assault instead of Heavy. Champions have access to some of the usual Wargear but have a Plague Sword (re-rolls wounds, no AP) or Power Fist instead of the normal Melee weapons choices. Like with Berzerkers, these guys are Elites in any non-Deathguard Legion list. They’re quite expensive and not the gods of power armour that they used to be, but they’re still damned good particularly when supported by the new Death Guard characters.

    NOISE MARINES
    The Emperor’ Children Troops/Elites option. Standard MEQ stats with +1A and the usual boltgun and bolt pistol loadout. They don’t have access to any of the usual special and weapons however, and instead choose from the unit-specific Sonic Weapons. Any model can take a Sonic Blaster, an Assault 3 bolter that negates cover bonuses. For a 10 man unit 2 models can take Blastmasters instead, which is either Assault D6 bolter shots with -1AP or Heavy D3 S8 AP-2 shots with Damage D3 (both profiles ignoring cover). The Champion can also take a Doom Siren (a mini heavy flamer) in addition to the usual weapons options. On top of this when they die they immediately get to attack either with their ranged weapon or grenades even if in combat. The Blastmaster isn’t as dangerous as it used to be and when upgraded with Sonic Weapons the unit can get quite expensive, but if Slaanesh is your thing these guys are still worth a look.

    RUBRIC MARINES
    The last of the Legion specific Troops/Elites choices. These guys are… odd. They’re super expensive and armed either with Inferno Bolters (AP-2 boltguns) or Warpflamers (AP-2 Flamers), with 1 model per 10 being able to take a Soulreaper Cannon, which is basically a slightly improved heavy bolter. A good chunk of their points comes from the unit champion, the Aspiring Sorcerer. These guys have the stats of a Champion, but are also a Psyker that can only cast a crappier version of Smite, and still has to pay for his Force weapon. The saving grace of this unit is that they have a 5+ invulnerable save, and that add +1 to save rolls against any attacks with Damage 1. Overall they’re a lot better than they used to be but they’re still pretty horrifically priced. I still want to use them, but I don’t see them forming the backbone of any of my lists.
     
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  8. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    NOTABLE MENTION - BE'LAKOR
    I've been ruminating on the differences between Heretic Astartes Daemon Princes and Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes and stumbled across a unit I'd overlooked - Be'Lakor. Statwise he's a Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince with 1 less Strength, 2 more Attacks and a 4+ save instead of 3+. He also has a really powerful sword and a single set of Maelific Talons so he's very potent in assault. Beyond his capacity as a killy Daemon Prince he is a really interesting unit for a few reasons. Firstly, he has Daemonic Ritual so can be summoned. He has no daemonic alignment either so he can be summoned by anyone, but doesn't benefit from any abilities that affect units dedicated to a certain god.

    He allows any friendly units with the DAEMON keyword to re-roll hit rolls of 1. This includes any Heretic Astartes units like Possessed, Maulerfiends, Mutilators and Obliterators as well as literally anything from the Chaos Daemon list. The big thing that helps him work with Heretic Astartes though is the fact he is a Psyker and generates powers from the Dark Hereticus discipline instead of the Daemon ones. This means he's actually not that good in a Daemon army, but fairly potent in a Heretic or mixed force.

    I don't know if I'll make him a core part of my armies, but he will definitely feature every so often once I get my hands on the model.
     
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  9. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES – ELITES
    A lot of armies consider their troops and heavy supports as the core components of their army. I strongly believe that for Heretic Astartes this dubious honour belongs to our Elites selections.

    CHAOS TERMINATORS
    Terminators got good. People will whinge forever about how terminators aren’t durable enough and wah wah wah but seriously they got better and they were already a viable option for us. Default gear is a combi-bolter and power maul with the option to upgrade to power axe, sword, fist, lightning claw or chainfist or replace the combi bolter with combi plasma, melta or flamer and 1 per 5 can take a Heavy Flamer or Reaper Autocannon. Alternatively you can swap out both weapons for a set of lightning claws. Minimum squad size is 5 (up from 3) and they have 2 wounds per model. The Champion gained his extra attack (that he somehow forgot about for 2 editions).

    So how do we use them? Reaper Autocannons are cheaper, and while combi-weapons got more expensive they are sooo much better than they used to be. Chaos Terminators can put out some SERIOUS damage in shooting now, coupled with the reliable Teleport Strike and buffs from Lords or Sorcerers make them incredibly accurate. As for what weapons to use? Well that’s going to depend on what you expect to face.

    Combi-bolters are no longer utter trash and will do some decent work against infantry, with the combi-flamer and heavy flamer adding to that. It is worth considering that the 8” range on Flamers and Heavy Flamers means they’ll be out of range when the unit teleports in, but you can still use them as an assault deterrent if you’re trying to get the upper hand over combat oriented units like genestealers or ork boyz. Combi-Plasma seems like a solid choice, expensive but capable of taking out MEQ and TEQ pretty reliably, falling back on the bolter for anti-trash duties and overcharging to take on vehicles and monsters. Combi-Melta doesn’t seem as attractive as it used to be, but putting D6 damage on something has a lot of potential and that AP-4 will make short work of armour. Reaper Autocannons are only slightly more than combi weapon upgrades so if you’re planning on using your terminators as a mid-range fire support unit it’s definitely worth looking at.

    What about melee weapons? Well we’ve discussed the merits of different melee weapons in the Lord/Sorcerer entry and the same logic applies here. I think “jack of all trades” mixed units are a bad idea and you end up bad at everything. I still think the best approach will be to define a purpose and equip them appropriately. Want to kill tanks? Use combi-meltas, keep the mauls and throw in some Chainfists here and there. Cheap and spammy? Power weapons and combi bolters. Really don’t like those big monsters? Power fists. Feel like chopping up some infantry? Lightning claws all round! I’m sure someone will math hammer why certain weapons are bad but I think if any unit can pull it of then it will be Chaos Terminators.

    Are there any downsides to the awesome new terminators? Yes. Points. Base points cost is roughly what they used to be, but soon as you start adding ranged and melee weapons you can easily double the cost of a model. Terminators don’t get a discount on their equipment anymore and must pay full price, so while chainfists and power fists are better than they used to be they are incredibly expensive. This is particularly frustrating since the model kit comes with more fist weapons than power weapons! I expect to see a lot of shooting terminators take to the field. We do it better than the Loyalist counterparts so I imagine people will want to capitalise on our new strength.


    CHOSEN AND FALLEN
    Chosen and Fallen are so similar I’ve just rolled them into a single entry. The only differences being Fallen are 2pt cheaper and lack the <LEGION>, <MARK> and HERETIC ASTARTES keywords. This hurts their synergy a bit but they get a rule that allows them to re-roll 1s to hit if they don’t move which kinda makes up for it (but not really). These guys are kind of like Terminators in Power Armour in that they can be equipped to do anything.

    They have a standard Marine statline with an extra attack and Bolter and Bolt Pistol as standard. Anyone can swap their Bolter for a chainsword, bumping them up to 3 attacks so they’re not too scabby as an assault unit. 4 models per unit can replace their bolter with a Plasma Pistol, Special Weapon, Combi Weapon, Melee Weapon or swap both weapons for a pair of Lightning Claws. But wait, there’s more! One additional model can take a Special or Heavy weapon. Still not done! The unit Champion can take a Melee weapon and a Plasma Pistol or Combi weapon. That’s a LOT of weapons options…

    So what do we do with them? Well you can go either shooty or choppy, and I’d strongly recommend avoiding trying to mix roles. Power Weapons are a lot cheaper than they used to be, so I’d be more inclined to use a Sword, Axe, or Maul as opposed to a Fist but with 2A each spamming power fists IS possible but really points heavy. I’ll be keeping the fists on Terminators. Lightning Claws are fairly affordable but I feel like they’re still too costly to use in huge numbers, although a single pair or a hidden power fist could help put some wounds on tougher opponents without breaking the bank.

    I’ve personally always used shooty Chosen equipped with 5 Plasma guns, and I’ll be looking to change things around a little to include some Combi-Plasma so I can pull double duty as anti-infantry. Same principals apply as when equipping Terminators, but consider that you also have access to non-combi options to keep things cheap, and a single heavy weapon. The Heavy weapon I’ve always felt was wasted, but now with being able to pick a separate target to the rest of the unit it could see some play.

    The big problem with Chosen is how to get them where they need to be before they get blown up, and it aint easy! Our options here are limited to either walking (not recommended) or sitting in a transport (expensive!). Fallen unfortunately lack the transport option, and for that reason alone I do not foresee many people (other than myself) using them. Will people use Chosen though? I don’t know, I feel like even though Terminators are a lot more expensive in points they edge out ahead in terms of usability and think we’ll probably see a lot more Terminators than Chosen, particularly since we’ve lost the ability to take Chosen as Troops choices.

    POSSESSED
    This is another unit I WANT to love. I love the models, the lore, the concept and by god the Gal Vorbak are cool! But they’re still pretty bad. They’ve gained 1” of movement and retain their S5 and 5+ invulnerable. The stupid random bonus ability is gone and they just get a straight AP-2 in combat. Why do I not like them? For some unfathomable reason our premier assault specialist elites choice has D3 attacks. Chosen with power axes put out more reliable damage at the same cost. Possessed have no weapons options and don’t even get bolt pistols. They’re cheaper than they used to be but not by enough. I’ll probably use them (I’m a sucker like that) but competitively? Not a chance.

    HELBRUTE
    I LOVE this unit. I’ve seen battle reports and analysis all over the place stating that they’re underwhelming but I am in love with them. Like with all vehicles it now has toughness, wounds and a save which winds up making them harder to kill than before. They’re now M8” so they’re a fair bit faster than before, and have some LETHAL close combat options. The Helbrute Fist is a power fist without the -1 to hit, while the hammer suffers -1 to hit but with better AP and D6 damage. The Power Scourge allows you to make 3 extra attacks each time you fight, and by having 2 close combat weapons you gain +1 attack. And yes, rules as written if you have 2 Power Scourges you get 3 attacks from EACH and +1 for having two weapons. That’s a total of 11 attacks! I expect this to be FAQ’d pretty fast but even without “double-scourging” they’re pretty savage.

    For a little extra shooty on your assault or mixed brutes you can add a Combi-Bolter (but not combi-flamer/melta/plasma) or a Heavy Flamer to your Helbrute fists.

    So what about actual ranged weapons? You start off with a Multi-Melta and can upgrade to a Reaper Autocannon, Twin Lascannon, Twin Heavy Bolter or Helbrute Plasma Cannon. The main problem is that you suffer the same -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons, so I see the Heavy Bolter and Reaper Autocannon being good choices on mixed ‘Brutes due to the volume of shots. The Plasma Cannon always fires with the same profile as Overcharge for standard plasma weapons and it suffers 1 mortal wound for rolling a 1. Unless you’re re-rolling those 1’s I don’t see this as a good option. If you want to go all-out for shooting you can replace the Fist with a Missile Launcher, which combos well with the Lascannon or Reaper for fire support.

    If that was everything I’d still be happy with it, but the icing on this rampaging death cake is the Crazed rule. At the end of any PHASE that it suffers any wounds roll a D6. On a 6 it will immediately shoots as though it is the shooting phase, or if it’s within 1” of an enemy it will pile in and fight as though it’s the Fight sub phase. Yes it’s only a 1/6 chance of happening, but this can really add to the damage output this thing pumps out over the course of a game. Team up with a Warpsmith for heals and enjoy!

    Like with all vehicles this guy has had a pretty sharp increase in points, but he’s well worth it in my eyes, particularly in Death Guard or Thousand Sons legions that lack a few key assault or ranged options, a few of these guys can fill them both.

    MUTILATORS
    Trash. Next! Ok ok that was a bit harsh, but these guys are still not very good. They’re similar stats to a 3 wound Terminators, have teleport strike and the 5+ invuln, which sounds pretty good so far. Why are they bad? Random freaking weapons. Each time you attack with these guys you get +D3 strength, with –D3 AP and D3 damage. This unreliable combat profile means you either run the risk of rolling bad and sucking against your chosen target, or being conservative and going overkill. They also have no ranged weapons of any kind and since they’re slow, once they hit their first target it is incredibly easy for an enemy to avoid them. For the same points you could have a unit of Terminators which are better in every way. These fellows are best left at home unless you’re doing something funky with the DAEMON keyword.

    CULT TROOPS AS ELITES
    In my Troops post I went over the merits of Khorne Berzerkers, Noise Marines, Rubric Marines and Plague Marines. All these units are available as Elites choices if you feel like using your own <LEGION> keyword instead of the “default” ones for those units. This will make your army composition a little different but will mean that things like Huron’s RED CORSAIRS buff can affect your Plague Marines and whatnot so it is perfectly viable to slot some Noise Marines into your Black Legion, or some Berzerkers into your Hakanor’s Reavers as Elites choices without breaking keyword synergies.
     
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  10. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES - ELITES (Continued!)
    So I'm an idiot and forgot about Thousand Sons and Death Guard!

    NOXIOUS BLIGHTBRINGER
    I previously had this guy listed under HQ's, but he's not! This is the only "Elite Support Character" available to Heretic Astartes, but there's lots (Apothacaries and flag wavers) available to Loyalists. He has standard support HQ stats with an extra point of toughness. He’s equipped with a Plasma Pistol and Cursed Bell and has exactly zero options. Like the other Death Guard he has Disgustingly Resilient and has the unique Tocsin of Misery ability which is a 7” aura that causes -1Ld to enemies (-2 for Psykers) and allows Death Guard to roll 2D6 and pick the highest result when Advancing. Hes… not great but since Death Guard have very few Elites choices it's worth considering. Possibly my favourite Death Guard model but I honestly think that a Dark Apostle is more useful, especially in a mixed army.

    SCARAB OCCULT TERMINATORS
    These guys are AWESOME! They're Rubric Marines but in Terminator form, and while Rubrics are overcosted and generally pretty poor these guys are spot on. They're slightly more expensive than the base cost of a normal terminator but they have Inferno Combi-Bolters (combi-bolters with AP-2) and Power Swords as standard gear, have All is Dust like the Rubrics and Teleport Strike like normal terminators. Added to this their unit champ is a Psyker that casts a weaker version of Smite.

    In terms of options, they can take one Hellfyre Missile Rack and either a Soulreaper Cannon or Heavy Warpflamer (Heavy dlamer with AP-2) per 5 models. Everything these guys puts out at range has at least AP-2 with the Hellfyre Missiles being able to pretty reliably hurt high toughness targets. These guys are exceptional at gunning down 3+ and 2+ armour. They're the anti-terminator terminators. Hold them in reserves, wait for enemy terminators to rear their ugly heads and BAM! Drop in close, shoot them dead and charge any survivors.

    So these guys are good, and their models are super sexy. Any downsides? Well while they weapons will cost less than fully equipped Chaos Terminators, the weapons options that they DO have are very expensive. Added to that, the Sorcerer leading them is also a lot of points. They're also not as flexible as Chaos Terminators and will struggle against Vehicles or Monsters with a lot of wounds, and will suffer in combat against hordes.

    The last downside is more of a thematic one. Scarab Occult are supposed to be rare. They were the elite of the elite in the Thousand Sons Legion and bodyguards to Magnus himself. The problem is they are so much more points efficient than Rubric Marines, the rank and file troops of the Legion, that I doubt we'll see any Rubrics on the table. Any minimum troops choices will be filled out with Tzaangor or Cultists while any "true" Thousand Sons units will be Scarab Occult. If the cost of Warpflamers, Soulreaper Cannons and the mandatory mini-Sorcerers wasn't so high they'd be decent, but as it is I don't see anyone comparing Scarab Occult and Rubricae are even going to look twice at the little fellas.
     
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  11. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES - FAST ATTACK, FLYER & DEDICATED TRANSPORT
    For decades the Fast Attack section of the Chaos Space Marines codex was largely ignored. Raptors were sub par, bikes overcosted and spawn utter trash. That changed a lot in 6th where suddenly Bikes were king and Helldrakes were the thing to spam! So how does Fast Attack stack up now?

    CHAOS BIKERS
    Faster movement than before but Turbo Boosting only adds 6" now, so overall they're slightly slower. The removal of Mark of Nurgle's +1T hurt them badly, T6 bikers were a go-to unit in competitive armies. Jink, Hammer of Wrath and all those other rules that came with bikes previously are gone too. Not to mention they got a fairly significant points increase. So are they bad? Not at all! The reason bikes were so ubiquitous in 6th and 7th is that they were a few points more than Raptors and just better in every single way. Now they're just more appropriate for their cost. Unit size is 3-9 but you still can only take 2 special weapons regardless of unit size, which I find pretty limiting. Coupled with the new improved combi-bolters and the fact you can fire it AND the special weapon (if you replaced the bolt pistol with it instead of your combi-bolter, which you should absolutely do!) means you can put out some good firepower. I feel like bikers are going to be more of a super-mobile fire support unit than the "charge forward into things" deathstar facilitator they used to be.

    My issue with Chaos bikes (aside from the models being horrid) is the unit is just plain BORING. There's not a whole lot of variety beyond "Should I take flamers, plasma or melta?". They were dull before, and now with Marks gone they're even duller. Not that daemon worshiping chainsaw wielding supersoliders in robot suits riding motorbikes shooting explosions at people isn't cool, but the unit just doesn't have a lot of variety to it.

    RAPTORS
    I've always loved Raptors, and I think now is their time to shine! They're a decent amount cheaper than Bikers, and not that much more expensive than Chaos Marines. Default gear is a bolt pistol and chainsword, so every model has 2 attacks in combat. 2 models can either replace their pistol with a Plasma Pistol, or replace both weapons with a Flamer, Melta or Plasma gun. Previously I would have scoffed at these so-called "options" and gone with a Melta Gun 100% of the time, but with the points adjustments across the board for our weapons and the ability to use Pistols while in combat I think the Plasma Pistol is a serious option. Personally the only option I'm not completely sold on is the Flamer, and that's only because the 8" range means they won't be able to shoot it the turn they come in using Raptor Strike (same as Terminator's Teleport Strike). That Raptor Strike ability is very useful for positioning them where they need to be, and like many Heretic Astartes units they have access to an Icon of Wrath so you can really put the pressure on. As a final little extra you add +1 to the result of any Morale test for enemy units within 1", which is pretty nice to have.

    Are Raptors the new cheese? No I don't think so. They're roughly the same points as before (slightly cheaper by a few) and their options definitely improved but I just don't see them as a must-have unit. We'll probably see more people using them, but overall there are better units in terms of damage output in combat and range.

    WARP TALONS
    The bastard child of Raptors and Possessed, and possibly one of the coolest models in the Chaos range. Pretty much Raptors with Lightning Claws and a 5+ invuln. They used to suck on account of being horrendously expensive, having a useless special rule and lacking grenades which meant they were striking last against most targets they wanted to mulch through because of terrain. Sadly, they're still very expensive (a mere 2 points less than they used to be), but with the new assault rules if they get the charge then they'll perform pretty well. Their Warpflame Strike allows them to set up in the same manner as Raptor Strike or Teleport Strike and enemies cannot fire overwatch at you the turn you arrive. Unfortunately Warp Talons do not have access to the Icon of Wrath, so can't reroll that crucial charge. Dropping a Sorcerer nearby to cast Warp Time to get them in nice and close might work, but I've heard rumblings that after deploying from reserves a model cannot move again other than to charge, so I'll have to wait and see. If the Warptime combo works then these guys are definitely going to make it in to some of my lists, but if it doesn't then they might just go back to making my shelf pretty.

    CHAOS SPAWN
    They're a fair bit slower than before but they gained an extra wound and actually have an armour save now! They still have a random amount of attacks, but those attacks now have AP-2 and 2 Damage. On top of that you get a random ability each time they fight, either AP-4, +2A or re-roll failed wound rolls. All pretty nice. One last thing they have is enemies within 1" suffer -1Ld. All this for the same points as before! These guys were pretty good before, but are significantly better now apart from the movement decrease. If you can get them in the same combat as a unit of Raptors you can really mess with enemy morale! Definitely a winner in my books, it's just a shame I don't have any...

    HELDRAKE
    Our one and only Flyer (outside Forgeworld that is!). I personally love the changes to the Heldrake. Before it just felt like an unkillable flying flamer, but now it FEELS like a robot daemon dragon should. It's a vehicle, it has Fly and the usual vehicle-type stats. Two things stand out for me, firstly is that it's SUPER durable. T7, 12 wounds, 3+ save, 5+ invulnerable save and it automatically regains 1 wound each turn. That's amazing! They're not supersonic so they're not hard to hit or anything like that, but I don't think they'll need it. Secondly, they are pretty good in assault. They won't wipe out hordes, take on combat elites or anything like that, but they have enough punch to take out small units, put a few wounds on a vehicle, strip a few models of a squad then flit away to continue burning a path of destruction through the enemy force. They are significantly more points than before (with the Baleflamer at least) and the legendary Baleflamer took a hefty (and well deserved) nerfing. I think we'll see the Hades Autocannon option more often now (as opposed to "what, Heldrakes have options?") and fewer Heldrakes overall thanks to their price hike, but that's going to be the case across the board when it comes to vehicles.

    CHAOS RHINO
    The only Dedicated Transport in all of Chaosdom is the humble Rhino. This thing more than DOUBLED in points! It now has 10 wounds and a 3+ save, so it seems a lot more durable than it used to be but with all the multiple-damage weapons out there this remains to be seen. I think with a Combi Plasma and Havoc Launcher a Rhino has the capacity to be a mini-tank, but those points are probably better spent elsewhere (not that this is going to stop me from doing something stupid with mine!). With the loss of fire points any units with mid-long range firepower will probably leg it, so I think Rhinos will see more play transporting assault units like Berzerkers. I'm actually happy with the points increase - I only have 2 Rhinos and the thought of spamming them made me cringe (I don't want to paint any more of them!) so I'll be using them to keep some key units safe rather than run an armoured company.
     
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  12. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES - HEAVY SUPPORT VEHICLES
    A lot of our heavy support options are vehicles so lets get some of the big changes out of the way up front. Firstly AV is gone and instead we have vehicles with Toughness, Wounds and Armour Saves. This means different facings are gone along with it, so you're a lot more free with positioning. With this new profile comes degrading stats - as a vehicle suffers wounds some key characteristics (usually movement, BS and Attacks), so despite something having in excess of 10 wounds, you can reduce its effectiveness by hitting this threshold (usually half wounds, then again at quarter wounds remaining).

    The next big change is that Vehicles suffer the same -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons as other units. This makes it far more important to get into position in advance and means good deployment of vehicles is crucial to getting the most out of them.

    Vehicles also now have WS and attacks so they CAN charge into combat and attempt to do damage up close. This is generally not a good idea since unless you have the FLY keyword the unit cannot shoot after retreating combat, and shooting is most definitely something most vehicles want to do!

    Finally, all our vehicles have some kind of "Explode" rule, when they're destroyed you roll a D6 and on a 6 all units with a model within 6" suffers D3 mortal wounds.


    CHAOS LANDRAIDER
    For many years the noble and glorious landraider was relegated to the shelf. Looks cool, had terrible rules. For some reason the Chaos landraider has always been "loyalist but worse" and we've suffered further indignity as several new and improved variants became available to Loyalists, while Chaos languished with the inefficient “godhammer” variant. Now they’re actually pretty good. They have higher T than the norm, with an impressive 16 wounds and 2+ armour save. They also ignore the -1 to hit modifier to move and got a very nice boost in firepower from the twin heavy bolter and lascannons. It can only transport models that share the <LEGION> Keyword with it but can now carry Jump infantry, which it previously could not. All this comes at a price though – a very very hefty price. Once you’ve added on the cost of weapons this beast is more than 100pts over its previous incarnation. Is it worth it? I honestly don’t know. It has got a LOT better, but it was an overpriced Berzerker limo until now, so it could just be a super overpriced shooty Berzerker limo in 8th. It does have me considering buying one, which is a thought that never crossed my mind before so I guess that’s saying something.


    CHAOS PREDATOR
    These were fairly dependable before, now they’re a very good choice. Their stock Autocannon has 2-6 shots (2D3) at S7 with 3 damage, which is pretty good for taking on monsters, multiwound infantry and light-medium vehicles. The Heavy Bolter sponsons are pretty affordable if you want some more firepower, and if you REALLY want to take on the heavyweights you always have the option for Lascannon sponsons and/or a Twin Lascannon turret. The Twin Lascannon is only a few points more than the Predator Autocannon, so there’s no reason not to take it if you’re loading out for anti-tank. This unit is pretty great. You can go cheap with just a turret weapon, or whole hog with turret, sponsons and havoc launcher and rain hell on your enemy from afar. I regret selling mine, it would make a very good addition to any Chaos list.


    CHAOS VINDICATOR
    Slightly tougher than the Predator but boy does it pale in comparison. It gets D3 shots (D6 against units of 5 or more models) at 24” at S10 AP-3 with D6 damage. Not too bad but what else does it get? Nothing. You CAN add a Havoc Launcher and a combi weapon, but why bother? The big problem is that stupid -1 to Hit for moving. It’s such a short range weapon you’re going to be moving, then with so few shots hitting on 4+ you’re likely only going to take out one or two models. It’s cheaper than a Predator which I guess is good but I would rather a Predator in almost every situation. This thing used to delete half a squad when it got in range, so to say it’s underwhelming now is an understatement.


    FORGEFIEND
    Our shooty walker just got better! It’s tougher than a Helbrute, has a 5+ invuln and recovers a wound each turn. It has 2 powerful ranged weapons and can actually do some damage in combat. The problems it faces now are twofold: degrading stats (which the Helbrute does NOT have) and that annoying -1 to hit with heavy weapons. This guy only has BS4+ as standard, so he’s hitting on 5+ when he moves. He is pretty mobile though and the short range of the Ectoplasma cannon will force him to move around unless your opponent like running headlong into a facefull of hot plasma. He IS a Daemon though which makes it a good candidate for some of the buff spells that are available to Daemons of Chaos, and given the high potential damage of his shooting attacks throwing Prescience on it or sitting a cheap Lord on babysitting duties can make it a very dangerous thing indeed. His price remained about the same, so I definitely think we’ll see more of these fellows stomping around. I can’t wait to break out my two!


    MAULERFIEND
    These were used in a similar manner as the legendary “Distraction Carnifex” – take a few and throw them down people’s throats fully expecting them to die but soak up enough firepower to let the rest of your army do its job. Not much changed really. They’re more durable than before (same stats as a Forgefiend) and have more attacks. The Magma Cutters are now pistols and Lasher Tendrils grant more attacks. They’re a tad slower and suffer from degrading stats, but regenerating wounds can avoid that. Having one or more escorting a Warpsmith around could be fun, and like the Forgefiend it is a DAEMON and opens up some synergies with the Chaos Daemon armies. I feel this guy would go particularly well in a Khorne Daemon force. It is a fair amount of points more expensive than before so I don’t feel they’ll be spammed in the same way, but still a very good assault unit.


    DEFILER
    The Defiler was the first thing that really said to the world “We are not just spikey Space Marines!” It was unique, something only available to Chaos and not some summoned Daemonic ally but an INNOVATION. A war machine designed and created by Chaos for the Traitor Legion (specifically Black Legion) and so successful it was widely adopted by traitors everywhere. And they have sucked for the better part of a decade. Too expensive, too easy to kill, and one of those “Jack of all trades” units that winds up being terrible at everything. Well it’s still super expensive but it’s got more wounds than the ‘Fiends and the same invuln and regeneration rules.

    It has a Battle Cannon (which can’t be replaced), Reaper Autocannon and Twin Heavy Flamer. The Reaper can be swapped for a Twin Lascannon or Twin Heavy Bolter, and the flamer can be swapped for a Havoc Launcher or Defiler Scourge. Given the BS issues all Daemon Engines have its shooting ability relies on buffs or not moving, which makes the flamer a great option if you want to lunge in to combat. The problem then is that it only has 3 attacks unless you take the Scourge (+3 with the Scourge profile), which replaces the flamer.

    I personally think that the Defiler should be treated the same way as the Forgefiend – load out for shooting and sit far away raining hell. If you DO choose to arm up for combat, don’t half ass it. Take the Scourge for the extra attacks and the Heavy Bolter to keep your ranged weapons overhead cost down.

    SPECIAL MENTION – SOULGRINDER
    The Soulgrinder is a Heavy Support selection from the Chaos Daemons list (and therefore lacks <LEGION> and HERETIC ASTARTES keywords) but it meshes very well with Heretic Astartes. It’s able to choose its daemonic alignment and has a very similar statline to the Defiler. It even looks like one that’s busted out of its armour! While the Defiler is better suited to range, the Grinder is better off up close with the Iron Claw and Warpsword doing some serious damage and the Warpclaw giving a boost in number of attacks so you can clean house against infantry. This doesn’t mean the Grinder is bad at shooting – the Phlegm Bombardment and Harvester Cannon are both pretty lethal, but it’s true strength lies in combat. You also get the standard Daemon of Nurgle/Tzeentch/Khorne/Slaanesh bonuses from the Daemons army, which means a Soulgrinder of Nurgle has the same Disgustingly Resilient rule that Death Guard enjoy, which can make for a nice thematic army!

    I like Soulgrinders a lot and while I don’t think they bring anything that you can’t get elsewhere they do blend in to a Heretic Astartes army almost seamlessly and clock in at about the same points as you’d spend on a Defiler.
     
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  13. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES – HEAVY SUPPORT INFANTRY & LORDS OF WAR

    HAVOCS
    Spikey Devastators! Standard marine stats in units of 5-10. 4 models can take either Special or Heavy weapons. Taking Special Weapons can make a unit very similar to shooty Chosen, and for a fair fewer points. The downside is no-combi weapons (except on the Champ), one less Special than Chosen, and poorer close combat ability but in my eyes this is a more efficient use of points than a similarly equipped Chosen unit. The main use for these guys though will be long range fire support. Loaded out with any of our Heavy weapons options will pack some decent firepower at a reasonable cost. Compared to a Forgefiend or Predator they are a lot squishier and they don’t have the same range of options as their Loyalist counterparts, but a well-equipped unit will do serious damage to their intended target. Tailor them to do what you need them to do and if you have leftover points throw in a few extra bodies for ablative wounds. I’ll be including these guys in most of my lists, even Heavy Bolters are good now!

    OBLITERATORS
    My oh my how the mighty have fallen. Every list I used in 7th included at least 6 of these. Now… probably none. They lost their ability to choose from different weapons, and now got a 24” Assault 2 weapon with strength between 7 and 9, AP -1 to -3, and D3 damage. They also lost their power fist, but gained an attack and a wound. They’re not BAD, and they haven’t gone down points but their role now is significantly changed. In 7th you could take on almost anything at any range, now you have to choose your target and position carefully. They have Teleport Strike so that pesky 24” range isn’t horrible but my big question is: why would you take them over Terminators? For a few more points than 3 Obliterators I can take 5 Terminators with 3 Combi-Plasma which will do roughly the same damage in shooting and a lot better in assault, have more wounds better movement and way more options. I like Obliterators, but I think it’s time for them to take a back seat and let the kids drive. The Age of Obliteration has ended.

    KHORNE LORD OF SKULLS
    Our first Heretic Astartes Lord of War, and the only one without a fixed Legion! I’ve never really used Superheavies in 7th so I’m not 100% sure about them, but this guy actually went DOWN in points. By a lot too! He was a thematic 888pts before, now depending on equipment he’s 620-720ish. It gets 2 ranged weapons, an arm cannon and chest gun. All its ranged weapons get heaps of high strength shots and you have options for taking on big tough targets or hordes. The guns are cool, but not what makes this guy unique.

    Like most vehicles this fellow has a degrading statline – as he takes damage his Movement and Strength go down but WS and BS remain the same, so even when severely damaged it’s still a threat. More interestingly though, his attacks go UP as he gets hurt. People are really going to think twice before trying to charge in those power fists to finish him off.

    Speaking of attacks, his Great Cleaver of Khorne can take on just about anything. The Smash profile hits at x2 strength (so between S10 and S20 depending on wounds remaining), -4 AP and 6 damage. With some slightly above average rolls you could quite literally kill a Knight in one round of combat. Alternatively you can Slash, making 3 hit rolls per attack and wiping out infantry. This guy is good at range but in combat he will DESTROY all but the most potent enemy.

    There’s also a few layers of icing on the crazy cake. He has the same Infernal Regeneration as other Daemon Engines, he can shoot when within 1” of an enemy as long as they’re INFANTRY, doesn’t suffer the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons and has a 5+ invulnerable. It also has the KHORNE, DAEMON, HERETIC ASTARTES and <LEGION> keywords, so get those Sorcerers in there casting Prescience and Warptime on this fellow and a Lord for some rerolls! Hell even run a Herald of Khorne alongside for the extra +1S.

    If I didn’t already have 2 Knights I’d be saving my pennies for this dude.

    MAGNUS THE RED
    Primarch of my favourite Legion and second Lord of War for Heretic Astartes. He has an impressive statline, basically a Daemon Prince with an extra 10 wounds and extra attacks. His Melee weapon is incredibly powerful and if he kills an enemy character with it you get a free Chaos Spawn! He also has a 4+ invulnerable and allows Thousand Sons units within 9” to re-roll to hit and invulnerable save rolls of 1.

    As the chosen Primarch of Tzeentch he has suitably awesome rules concerning his Psychic powers. He can cast 3 powers per turn and knows all 3 powers of the Dark Hereticus discipline as well as Smite.When he casts Smite it does D6 mortal wounds and 2D6 if the cast roll is 10 or more. On top of this he has a +2 bonus to his cast and deny the witch rolls which degrades as he takes damage.

    All this would be REALLY cool if the Psychic phase in general wasn’t so underwhelming. Don’t get me wrong, I like the mechanics but I feel that there should be more than 3 powers available to Heretic Astartes, especially given that Daemons get 9, and between Blood Angels, Space Marines, Space Wolves and Dark Angels there’s 12. Why is a Dark Angels Librarian more different than an Ultramarines Librarian than a Thousand Sons Sorcerer is to an Emperor’s Children one? If Heretic Astartes had access to the Daemonic lores as well and those disciplines were god specific instead of Daemon specific I’d be happy.

    Magnus dropped significantly in points and lost a fair bit of the bling that went with his old rules but I feel like (aside from my qualms with the Psychic phase) he’s very well represented in the new rules. The only problem really is that Thousand Sons in general are so expensive I think it’s going to be hard to fit him in to a “pure” list without making some significant compromises.

    RENEGADE KNIGHT
    Not technically Heretic Astartes but it would be foolish to omit. The Renegade Knight is far more flexible than its loyalist counterpart – with no fixed “patterns” you can mix and match weapons as you please, even taking doubles of the ranged weapons. I feel that the Thermal Cannon isn’t the greatest but it still has pretty good damage potential and is the cheapest option. The Rapidfire Battlecannon is a good all-rounder able to put out a 2D6 shots with good strength and D3 damage and the Avenger Gatling Cannon more of an anti-infantry role (especially given the built-in heavy flamer). The Knight doesn’t suffer -1 to hit for moving and shooting heavy weapons, so loading up on guns isn’t a bad choice but it is an expensive one.

    It’s no slouch in combat either, with the Reaper Chainsowrd and Thunderstrike Gauntlet dishing out high strength high damage attacks, or just using its feet to stomp on infantry. He can shoot when within 1” of an enemy as long as they’re INFANTRY as well so being stuck in combat isn’t too concerning.

    The weapons almost doubled in cost on this unit, so it is overall a lot more expensive than it used to be and rightfully so. I feel that the Lord of Skulls is a more powerful unit in general, but the Knight can be built to fill any holes in your list and fielding multiples is still pretty viable as long as you're conscious of the points cost and don't over-equip them.
     
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  14. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    FORTIFICATIONS - THE CHAOS BASTION
    The usual fortifications like Aegis Defence Lines, Void Shield Generators and whatnot still exist as "Unaligned" units and can be taken by Chaos forces, but the Chaos Bastion is the only fortification listed in the Chaos index so it's the only one I'll really talk about. It's pretty damn durable, T10, 20W and a 4+ save and comes equipped with 4 heavy bolters (one on each facing) with the opetion of an Icarus Lascannon or a Quad Gun on the roof. Up to 20 Infantry models can embark in the building, and 10 models can fire their weapons during the shooting phase measuring range and line of sight from any point on the building. This seems odd to read, but it eliminates the whole "Modelling for advantage" thing that popped up every so often. It's 200pt base (including heavy bolters) so it's not cheap. I don't really see the point in it, but who knows? If you like the "bunker down" play style you can do it pretty literally with this thing.
     
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  15. Fhanados
    Terradon

    Fhanados Well-Known Member

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    HERETIC ASTARTES - LEGIONS, SUMMONING AND FINAL THOUGHTS
    Ok guys last post! There's going to be a lot of unit combos, weapons loadouts and synergy between Heretic Astartes and Chaos Daemons that I've missed but honestly, I'm not the person to ask if that's the kind of thing you're after. In this last post I'll touch on the Death Guard controversy, summoning and a few final thoughts.

    LEGIONS
    Waaaaay back in the first post of my rambling essay I explained what 8th had done to the Legions - essentially removing them. There are 4 Legions that retained some form of a guideline to create them and a few unique quirks.
    • World Eaters must all take the KHORNE keyword (excluding the Sorcerer by virtue of them not having access to the mark of Khorne). Other than this there's no restriction on what units you have available, and you gain Kharn the Betrayer and Khorne Berzerkers as troops.
    • Emperor's Children must all take the SLAANESH keyword but otherwise have no restrictions. By being Emperor's Children you can take Lucius the Eternal, and Noise Marines become troops.
    • Thousand Sons must take the TZEENTCH keyword and gain access to Exalted Sorcerers, Magnus, Ahriman, Scarab Occult Terminators and Tzaangor, and Rubric Marines become Troops. As a trade off they lose access to all non-vehicle units except for Sorcerers, Spawn and Cultists. I feel like the loss of Lords was unnecessary, but I can understand the reasoning.
    • Death Guard must take the NURGLE keyword and like Thousand Sons lose access to most of the usual HERETIC ASTARTES units. They keep all the Death Guard specific units mentioned in previous posts, Lords, Sorcerers, Cultists, Possessed, Rhinos, Spawn, Defilers, Predators and Land Raiders.
    So lets focus on the Legions that lost things. Havocs are a staple of both Legions, as are Terminators and Chosen. Now they're gone! If you want a pure Death Guard or pure Thousand Sons force you just straight up don't get to use them. But here's the thing - you still can. There is NOTHING in the rules saying you must take all your Heretic Astartes units from the same Legion. There is nothing saying the Detachment even has to be the same Legion. I can have Thousand Sons Scarab Occult Terminators dropping in with my Black Legion Khorne Raptors and have an unmarked Alpha Legion Sorcerer cast Warptime on one unit and Prescience on the other. All in the same army. In the same detachment.

    Likewise I can have Typhus and a Lord of Contagion leading my Death Guard army supported by Havocs and Terminators from the Lords of Decay warband all painted the same colour. Does it affect my army composition? Yeah a little. Do my havocs and terminators have Disgustingly Resilient? No they don't, but if that's what you're moaning about then you'll have no sympathy from me. The fact Marks don't do anything now, yeah I can understand being ticked off at that. At the end of the day though the unit is still available to you, you can still use it within the same army as a "restricted" Legion and Death Guard at least will be getting their own codex soon enough.

    SUMMONING
    Summoning has changed, and for the better! It's no longer free - you have to pay points to summon, but you don't have to include the specific models reserved for summoning on your army list. Instead, you put aside an allotment of points and that is your "Reinforcement Points". Whenever you successfully summon a unit you set it up and deduct it's total points cost (including wargear & options) from your Reinforcement Points pool. So that's pretty cool, very flexible in that you can choose what you want to summon on the fly. But how do you actually do it?

    Any CHAOS CHARACTER may attempt a Daemonic Ritual instead of moving, as long as they weren't summoned or deployed from reserves this turn. Roll up to 3D6, and you get to summon one unit (that has the Daemonic Ritual rule) with a Power Rating equal to or less than the result. If your character has a mark, they can only summon units with the same alignment as them.

    I love this mechanic, it reminds me very much of the 3rd edition summoning. People may ask "why summon? Why pay points for something that might not even work?". 2 reasons in my opinion: Firstly Chaos Daemons lost the ability to Deep Strike, so this gives them access to a deepstrike analogue. Secondly, flexibility. Any long-term player will likely have units that sit on the shelves because they're too situational. Summoning allows you to bring units to the table based entirely on the current situation. Need cheap bodies to get in the way? Nurglings. Want to hold down a backfield objective? Plaguebearers or Horrors. Got a good roll and need to really threaten your opponent in a serious way? Bring on a Daemon Prince, Bloodthirster or Soulgrinder. Have all of your fast units been taken out and you need to cross the board quickly? Get some Seekers or Chariots on the table.

    The only thing I DON'T like about summoning is that I don't have enough Daemon models to really make the most of it.

    FINAL THOUGHTS
    This index has done something I've been wanting to see happen for a long time - it has brought Chaos together as a single coherent faction. It would have been nice if it had something like Genestealer Cults where a single Astra Militarum detachment could be taken under their faction instead of IMPERIUM, but I guess that's covered by Forgeworld. I'd just really like to see the old Lost and the Damned style army as a mainstream force.

    Overall the Chaos faction seems quite strong. It doesn't have as many overlapping buffs and synergies as the infamous Imperial Soup but bringing Daemons and Heretic Astartes together under a single force lets you plug the holes pretty efficiently and the sheer range of options is really something Chaos has lacked for a long time. With the 2 Forgeworld index books in support of the main Chaos index there is a huge variety of very competitive options. If GW never released a new Chaos rule again I could spend the next 20 years building my armies on these books alone!
     

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