hey guys, haven't bee arround for a while so sry if this was allready discussed. Problem: 7th ed. wording: bla bla bla to issue or meet it (the challenge), must be fighting in combat allready. bla bla bla must be possitioned in base to base against an enemy modell Slann in the 2nd rank, no base-to-base no challenge 8th ed wording: bla bla bla one of your characters or champions whose unit is in base contact with the unit containing the issuer of the challenge. Note that a character does not have to be in base contact with an enemy to accept or issue a challenge, just part of a unit that is. pls tell me that the slann can not be challenge in this edition when he is with TG
Yes, he can. The key is to make sure that you use the lore of life to make the unit T8 as well. Also, the first wound grown back into the unit is the champion. Lore of Light could help as well with ws10 I10 on the unit along with Pha's protection. They really should faq that to make it impossible according to the TG special rules.
given the facts i'd rather avoid light. between chalenges and directing attaks against the champion its hard to think he can survive with T4 and 4+ save. i'd rather go for regrowth on the unit every turn. maybe a magic item. also, somewhat on topic: we got hand weapons and special weapons. a model will allways use his special weapon instead of his hand weapon (Halbred > HW+Shield) unless he has a magic weapon (Magic Weapon+Shield > Halbred). that means that a TG Champ with a BBoC would have a 3+ save and 2A at S4. no doubt there if i wanted to get him to a 2+ savethe only option would be an enchanted shield. its the only equivalent of heavy armour he can take for the points he is allowed. the problem is that nowhere in the rulebook does it say that the model will drop his special weapon in favor of a magic shield, thus Halbred > HW+ES. am i reading this wrong, or is it really impossible to get a 2+ save for the revered guardian?
They way Im reading it is he will use a magical wep over anything else, the shield is just a magic item in a sense, it doesnt say he would use it so, no unfortunately :/
Yeah technically the Slann can be challenged. I think last time this came up it was pointed out that the Slann always stays in the second rank though so there was a bit of disagreement. The rules are clearly intended that he cannot be challenged, if you don't have rules lawyers as friends you should be ok. My gaming group has said that the Slann cannot be challenged.
A couple of different opinions in my group. My Brettonia player forces the slann into a challenge with some virtue that makes the challenge be accepted. But, usually, I have at least the champion to help out with that. Even without that, the slann usually survives fairly well. It should be faq'd to make the TG accept the challenge if there is even one in the unit.
1 question I'd like to float in here. Assume the slanns the only character left in the squad, and gets challenged, naturally, you decline. Does the slann move to the back of the squad(as you normally would), or does he just stay in the 2nd rank(where he would normally be without a challenge)?
As he has to be moved out of the combet so he cannot participate he would have to be moved out of the second rank which can fight. However, this could be debated as the army book, with the exception of the references section, overrides the rule book so depending on the wording he may stay in the second rank. Also I agree with making TG like grail knight where the entire unit can accept challenges.
This. Guardians special rule for the Slaan requires that he be in the second rank. Army book overrides BRB, so the Slaan can't fight, but he stays in the second rank and can still cast and dispel in the next magic phase. Related question: since Guardians states that the Slaan is always placed in the second rank, what happens if the front rank of 5 Temple Guard is reduced to only three? Does the Slaan step up, as in the BRB, or does he remain in the second rank? I think he's supposed to step up as there was no reform made, but it seems there is a small rule conflict.
the fact he must stay in the 2nd rank wont stop him from being challenged. in the BRB under challenges, it states if the 2 characters cannot be placed in B2B contact for whatever reason, they just remain where they are within the unit. also, id say he always stays in the second rank, regardless of how many temple guard are left. it says specifically he must be in the 2nd rank of the temple guard unit. as long as there are TG left, 2nd rank it is
He has to step up when it gets to one TG left. It shows in the mixed unit rules, cause you can't have a second rank larger than front.
discussed this at my local shop monday night. we came to the conclusion that he steps up as soon as there is room for him to fit in the front rank. here's why: 1) 5 TG in the front rank and 1 Slaan behind them 2) 2 TG die during the enemy's intiative phase, so your models must step up to fill the gap (note that the Slaan still can't be attacked unless there is another enemy model with a lower iniative than the first attackers). This puts the Slaan in base-to-base contact. 3) You take your attacks, combat is resolved, and then reforms are allowed. However, since your Slaan is already in base-to-base contact, he can't reform. True, there's a rules conflict (Army Book overrides BRB), but since the unit started 5 wide, it must remain 5 wide until a reform is performed. it can't change the number of files in a rank without a reform, and since the Slaan has already stepped up it also violates the combat reform rules. So it's sort of 2-1 for the Slaan being in the front rank. personally, i'm still 50-50 on the whole thing and will play it how my opponent chooses (at that point, your Slaan is likely hosed anyway). this is a rules conflict that surely calls for a FAQ (but won't get one).
The Slann doesn't step up unless there are not enough TG left in the unit to form a front rank. He MUST remain in the 2nd rank if able. The stepping up rule doesn't override the army book, its simply designed to make lower initiative units be able to throw attacks back if they take heavy casualties from a fast opponent.
Check out the page with mixed units on it. It explains the rules for the Skrox and Slann in TG there.
I realize now that he was referring to having less than 5 TG in the unit, in which case the slann would have to move forward. Once you are down to 3 or less he has to move
What Rolfgar said. You can't change the width of your unit without a reform, and by the time you get to that part of the combat phase you're already in base contact. The Guardians rule states the Slaan is always placed in the second rank. Rules conflict (depending on how you interpret "always").