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8th Ed. Carnosaur Ideas

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Tactics' started by Kcibrihp-Esurc, Sep 30, 2014.

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What do you think of Carnosaurs?

  1. Brilliant

    13 vote(s)
    24.5%
  2. Good but there are better options

    19 vote(s)
    35.8%
  3. Unsure

    17 vote(s)
    32.1%
  4. Bad

    3 vote(s)
    5.7%
  5. Terrible

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Nice but too Expensive

    18 vote(s)
    34.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Okay guys I've got some ideas for Carnosaurs and would like you to contribute as well

    1. most people don't like Jungle Swarms but they could be used to protect against cannon-fire as 5 wounds for 35 points toughness 2 they are wounded just as easily as your Carno while being much cheaper as at the point where you've lost more jungle swarms than your Carno is worth protecting said Carno then your War-machine hunters need to get to work and if your Carno isn't in combat by that point, something's wrong. EDIT: NEVER MIND RULES SAY NO

    2. Also where your Carno's prowess just isn't enough it would be pretty easy for magic to fill that hole, things like Speed of Light or Flesh to Stone should give your Carno plenty of the stuff your looking for, especially when combined with Hexes

    3. A Carno should be fast enough to get into cover and where it isn't you probably have something to help with that, as Birona's Timewarp, Steed of Shadows and Walk Between Worlds are all useful for this kind of thing

    4. Once you get into combat you should be relatively safe but look out for Heroes and Lords if you get caught by an enemy unit which you know has no Heroes or Lords, challenge, especially when you have buffs running, try to get Infantry if at all possible for Thunderstomp as D6 strength 7 hits can ruin someone's whole day and especially be careful with Bretonnians as they get Heroic Killing Blow (and I think Tomb Kings do too...) Also if you have a great weapon then it goes simultaneously with the stomps

    Okay, I've gotten the ball rolling, let's see what everyone else can come up with :D

    P.S Please don't just say "Don't take them" or "They're useless" or anything along those lines as everyone's probably heard that ten thousand times so if you're going to say that then Get the Hell off my Thread! Just place your vote and leave unless your going to place a productive comment
     
  2. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Could you explain #1 a little better...
    how do swarms help against cannons ?
     
  3. zenteck
    Skink

    zenteck New Member

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    i think you have covered alot of the main points there, i voted for they are possibly too expensive for what they are, given that they take over a slaan majority of the time in points wise, but ignoring that, i find that the save of the actual monster leaves much to be desired (as much as i love using the carno!), given that (i know it has been said a million times before) a cannon or two will get a shot at it in some form or another in most cases, especially considering moving cannons like steam tanks and skull cannons! however its not all doom and gloom, i said it was over costed for a low save but.... it is very very powerful once it is in combat and i find its utility if you can keep it safe stupendous in any battle personally, however i always cringe at the relatively low toughness and save against simplistic archers, or even skink poisoning when facing another lizards player, as a few wounds down before combat could mean no thunderstomps, so ye thats where i stand i think but if anyone else has any ideas im more than willing to change my mind lol.

    to remedy this i tend to chuck a unit of 5 rzors in front of it (ye i know quite costly) but i find that they may indefinetly protect against cannon fire for 1-2 turns due to that delicious skink save, that a lot of the time it reaches combat unscathed, not only that basic shooting has to get through hard cover which alot of armies are not impressed at risking (especially skinks etc when losing poisen), and.... the razors can protect it against chaf while it moves up the board with them, then break out charges when the cannons are closed in by ripper/terrors.
     
  4. DanBot
    Ripperdactil

    DanBot Member

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    Place the swarm just in front of the carnosaur between the cannon and dinosaur. Unless the cannon lands directly on the dinosaur, it has to pass through the jungle swarm first. If the cannon doesn't do all 5 wounds to the swarm, the ball stops and never reaches the carnosuar.

    At least I think that is what the idea is. I think it works unless some swarm rule that makes that unture. Would work with any other multiwound model.

    Edit. Does not work. Cannons only stop if it fails to kill a monster, monstrous infantry, cavalry, or beast.
     
  5. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    ok, that kinda makes sense...
    it would work if they only had one cannon,
    probaly best to run yout swarms single file
    then, incase he rolls a 6.
     
  6. Gogery
    Saurus

    Gogery Member

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    I don't believe the cannonball eating jungle swarm idea works. The cannon rules state

    "If the cannonball bounces into a monstrous infrantry/beast/cavalry or monster, that model suffers a hit. However, if the monster or monstrous infantry/beast/cavalry model is not slain, the sheer bulk of the creature robs the cannonball of all momentum and the shot travels no further."

    Jungle swarms are classified as "swarms" and not as monstrous infantry, monstrous cavalry, or monstrous beasts, so unless I'm missing something, the cannonball will go straight through them anyway.
     
  7. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we should ask Games Workshop. It has many funny things with wording so it's worth checking
     
  8. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    ZaGrekkie (and others) have mentioned great success in double Carnosaur lists.

    What about single Carnosaurs?

    I tend to have bad luck when I run my Carnosaur. Whether or not I'm facing cannons, the Carnosaur usually doesn't it make it into combat with more than two wounds. Granted it takes pressure off the rest of my army, but it's hard to capitalize on that, at least for me.

    Anyone have any success stories with solo Carnosaurs. I'm guessing that Scarnosaurs are probably slightly better than Old Blood Carnosaurs because it lets you take a Slann, but taking a Scarnosaur gives relatively little room for Cowboys or Skink Priests.
     
  9. Dog On Todd
    Kroxigor

    Dog On Todd Member

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    I'm trying one out in my next game, but I am completely terrified of using it. Throwing an Old Blood as my general on it, and I can't think of a bigger target. Going to try Razor body guards, throw defensive items on and such, but there is no reason not to target the carnosaur once it gets in combat > OB which really pisses me off. I have to babysit it just to get it into combat, and then it seems like it would be good for one round before the big brute dies
     
  10. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying a Dual Slann Scarnosaur list against Brettonnians soon so I'll post the result, but if it's just "He used killing blow the instant it got into combat" don't be surprised, Brettonnians are annoying like that.
     
  11. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts on the carnosaur:

    It's nice if you want to rob yourself of hero points and/or not take a slann. A few ways i would take mine:
    1. Kroq-gar - Ward save on the mount, extra attack without frenzy. Hell yes.
    2. Monster heavy. A few Stegs, carno or 2. Cannon target saturation, because the ancient stegs are the best monster we have and are better to have on the charge than most other things except a steam tank.

    My 2c
     
  12. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    You know I really don't like having to post on my own thread but here we go:

    You must also consider them with the rest of your army

    Two tactics from the OLD book, y' know when you could have Kroxigor charge through skink screens, got Slann generations and Sacred Spawnings there were tactics pages at the back of the book, the two tactics were; the Thunder Lizard and the Winged Serpent which both find a use for a Carno for those of you who are new, just ask what the tactics entail and how they involve Carnosaurs if you want (Both tactics are more viable now then they were in that edition!)
     
  13. Ersh
    Cold One

    Ersh Active Member

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    Carno (and his rider) have 3 problems.

    1) price - we can do nothing with it.
    2) canons - well, it's solvable. Charmed shield will save rider. But still carno have all chances to die. And if he die - rider will have one less AS.
    3) Spells with instant kill, such as pit of shades. Monster can't have lookout. Wards will not help u. Cost me a carno in my last game vs DE =(
     
  14. Mr Phat
    Skink Chief

    Mr Phat 9th Age Army Support

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    I have my hopes for 9th.


    also:

    blood roar + death slann with doom and darkness really has its uses!

    Use the carno as a "terror cannon"

    - Put D&D on the enemy general.
    - Next turn: Pick a target that is FAR away
    - declare a charge with the carno
    - fail the charge
    - The enemy has to take the terror test.

    If you position yourself right you can often make an entire unit run of the
    table by making them pop through the rest of his units.
     
  15. Dog On Todd
    Kroxigor

    Dog On Todd Member

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    That's evil! I like it. Definitely trying this if Carno doesn't fail me too bad in my monster mash list for my next game. Still worried my opponent will just attack the carno and kill it without breaking a sweat
     
  16. Kcibrihp-Esurc
    Razordon

    Kcibrihp-Esurc Well-Known Member

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    Definitely Bloodroar
    And has anyone else seen the FAQ about being able to use 50% points in Lords and 50% in Heroes?*
    Idea's Evil isn't it?

    *Here's the place Warhammer BRB FAQ & Errata
     
  17. Ersh
    Cold One

    Ersh Active Member

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    I will have 1500 game tomorrow, and i'm thinking about trying carnosaur. To be honest - i don't care about result of this game much, i simply want to test some game mechanics and have some fun =)
    So, i will go oldblood (CO, GW, Glittering, Downstone) and Scarvet on carno...

    My main problem - i don't know what items should i give to Scarvet... No "thick-skin" and cause of that - huge problems with AS. Any ideas?
     
  18. Kinks
    Jungle Swarm

    Kinks New Member

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    I'm not sure that this is 100% legal. Page 16; BRB; "Can I Charge?" prohibits a unit declaring a charge if it is outside the maximum charge range. So it is possible, but, situational.

    The bonus of this is, that used correctly, you could declare a charge against a unit at the far reaches of your charge range, make it flee and then redirect and do it again.
     
  19. Ixt
    Troglodon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

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    Kinks, to make sure that I understand you:

    You can redirect into the same unit you'd previously charged??
     
  20. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    "Far away" as in, 10+ is needed on your charge roll to succeed.

    You might get unlucky and manage the charge, but chances are you wont, especially without lopping stride.

    That's how I usually utilize terror, at least. My main issue is that so many things seem to not care about terror. Or maybe it's just because too many people play VC, TK and dwarves, where 2 of them are outright immune to it, and the last has such a high Ld that it doesn't matter.
     

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