1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AoS Arcane Vassal

Discussion in 'Rules Help' started by Tlac'Natai the Observer, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Tlac'Natai the Observer
    Cold One

    Tlac'Natai the Observer Active Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I don't know if this has been touched in another thread or not, but I have been debating (with myself) how an enemy can unbind a spell cast via Arcane Vassal through a Skink Hero or Troglodon.

    Arcane Vassal is huge utility for Seraphon as a Slann is so precious that they need to stay toward the back of the army, sometimes camping at the back of the table. Arcane Vassal is used to hit strategic points that your Slann cannot reach (even with Astrolith Bearer).

    So my question is: When the enemy wants to unbind a spell through the Arcane Vassal, do they measure 18" from the Vassal, or the actual caster, the Slann? It isn't clear cut in the rules, so I was wondering if any of you have had an argument during a game, or if you have a solid theory on how this is supposed to work.

    Also, side note, it doesn't sound like you're allowed to unbind through an Arcane Vassal (using 1 of the 3 unbinds that a Slann gets every turn), have any of you used the Slanns unbind, rather than the one the Troglodon or Starpriest gets?

    Any of your other thoughts on Arcane Vassal are welcome =)
     
    Ixt likes this.
  2. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    8,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know you can't use the slaan's unbind through the vassal, interesting thought about unbinding against the slann rather than the vassal, but I think it goes to the vassal.
     
    Crowsfoot likes this.
  3. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,344
    Likes Received:
    14,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To me you unbind from the vassal but if the vassal atempts a unbind you use the vassal rules not the Slann
     
    Bowser likes this.
  4. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    8,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Right the vassal has one unbind of it's own, and nothing about unbind in the vassal rules from the slann scroll. So that's why you couldn't use the slann unbinds for the vassal.
     
  5. Phoedinn
    Razordon

    Phoedinn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    576
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Honestly I've always done it from the slann. It sounds unfair but the rule state that you unbind if you are with 18" from the CASTER and arcane vessel at no points says you CAST from the skink just that it's channeled, like a relay point.
     
  6. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    "Arcane Vassal: Before a Slann Starmaster attempts to cast a spell, you can pick a vassal to channel it; this can be a Skink Hero or Troglodon from your army that is within 15". If the spell is successfully cast, measure the range and visibility from the vassal rather than the Slann Starmaster."

    There's the exact quote of the rule. By my judgement, because it specifies that you need to successfully cast the spell before firing it out of the Vassal, you'd also need to Unbind it before it gets fired from the Vassal. If that makes any sense.
     
  7. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    8,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That makes sense, hadn't really thought about it like that
     
  8. Ixt
    Troglodon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Wow! This is pretty interesting. I've completely missed it. To add onto Bainbow's quote, here's the unbinding entry:

    "If a spell is cast, the opposing player can
    choose any one of their wizards that is
    within 18" of the caster, and that can see
    them, and attempt to unbind the spell
    before its effects are applied. To unbind a
    spell, roll two dice. If the roll beats the roll
    used to cast the spell, then the spell’s e ects
    are negated. Only one attempt can be made
    to unbind a spell."

    Note what's bolded: 'caster,' being the Slann. Without any additional rules, it seems to be correct the the Vassal only 'channels' the spell instead of 'casting' it.

    Looks like the Trog just got better. :)
     
    Bowser and Bainbow like this.
  9. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Worth noting as well that when you factor in an Astrolith's spell range boost, an Arcane Bolt through a Vassal will have a 41" range. And they say we lack range.
     
    Bracnos, Ixt, Crowsfoot and 1 other person like this.
  10. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,344
    Likes Received:
    14,489
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reading what you guys have put down, Slann has become a monster and the vassal not far behind
     
    Ixt likes this.
  11. Phoedinn
    Razordon

    Phoedinn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    576
    Trophy Points:
    93
    If only the slann had a more interesting ranged spell :L But it has been incredibly useful for summoning.
     
  12. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I find it most useful in the Time of War rules where you get insanely OP spells for all your wizards.
     
    Ixt and Bowser like this.
  13. Ixt
    Troglodon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I've been looking over the Seraphon warscrolls with a set of fresh eyes. This 'unbind-proof' strategy radically changes many of my own early-game tactics, emboldening our entire army but especially buffing our lone models. Keep in mind that *any* 'Skink Hero' can channel the Slann's spells now -- this includes Skink Chiefs and the Engine of the Gods, for example.

    At first glance, the nature of the Slann's four available spells demonstrates some aptitude for culling beefy lone models/small multi-wound units. Combined with a strong and/or well-placed Arcane Vassal (one that can hold the midfield early), the Slann/Vassal tandem ought to allow most generals to shore up any weaknesses in their army/eliminate threats in the opponent's army.

    I'm going to draft up some tactics that this tandem could pull off - the specialties of each individual Arcane Vassal (as well as complementary forces) - and post them in a new thread, contributors most definitely welcome! One area in which I can't offer much thought is the 'Time of War' scenario, as I don't have those rules.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  14. Phoedinn
    Razordon

    Phoedinn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    576
    Trophy Points:
    93
    What spells are good for that? All I see is the arcane bolt. All the others seem to be buffs or spells versus units.
    Sorry if the tone of that is off, I couldn't think of a better way to say it :S
     
  15. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The Thief of Time spell from the Mount Kronus ToW ruleset it particularly nasty for this Vassal tactic. 18" range, pick an enemy unit, that unit takes 1 Mortal Wound in every Hero Phase from now on (both yours and your opponent's) until the Caster is slain. That caster now being 41" away, place that on the enemy general or a big monster and watch them decay.
     
  16. Ixt
    Troglodon

    Ixt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    353
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No biggy! I've had a busy day, but I'm starting to type up stuff now.
     
  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,935
    Likes Received:
    32,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    With summoning and astrolith, you basically threaten the whole battlefield. Especially if you summon nasty things with missile weapons, like a trio of sallies with one handler (possibly killing the enemy's general since turn 1).
     
  18. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    And people keep saying that Kroak is objectively better.
     
    Phoedinn likes this.
  19. Phoedinn
    Razordon

    Phoedinn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    576
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yeah I noticed he didn't have the AV ability..My normal Slann keeps getting better :)
     
    Ixt, Bainbow and Bowser like this.
  20. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    733
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Always said the Slann has more utility, wish I'd realised AV was this good sooner.
     
    Ixt and Bowser like this.

Share This Page